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Old July 23 2013, 06:59 PM   #1996
DalekJim
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I don't think we're being pessimistic, just realistic. GRRM is now a rich megastar who spends huge chunks of his time travelling the world, attending press events and such, reaping the rewards of his fame. This makes it hard to get much writing done, for a man who can only write at home. When the TV show ends the series, I think he'll be even less motivated to write.

I love GRRM, he's one of my favourite authors, and I think he was set to match Tolkien's quality after the success of his first 3 ASOIAF books. I do think though that he's slowly let his legacy slide further and further away from him since the year 2000.
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Old July 23 2013, 07:09 PM   #1997
Brendan Moody
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I think you're wildly overestimating the amount of time he's away from home; he cut back on appearances a couple years ago, specifically because they took up too much writing time. He does promotional stuff for the show when each season starts, and goes to a few conventions (some of them local) every year, but that's not "huge chunks"... unless you're a pessimist. And if he were really worried about the show ruining his ending, he wouldn't still be giving the producers details about what's to come so they can undermine him further. All you have to do is look at the writing-related posts on his blog to get that this is not someone in search of motivation to work. He's slow, he took on too many other projects after finishing Dance, and he easily loses control of project length. That's the story.
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Old July 23 2013, 07:15 PM   #1998
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I certainly hope you're right Brendan. I just think the alternative cannot be dismissed as naysaying or doom and gloom, given his age and girth. But maybe we should discuss the books instead.
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Old July 23 2013, 07:16 PM   #1999
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Well, right now I'm predicting that Winds of Winter is released 2017, and we never get the final book. I'd love more than anything to be proven wrong, but very little evidence exists to encourage me. It's embarrassing enough for him that he allowed a TV adaptation to be made, and it's going to beat him.

Ideally, we'd have had AFFC/ADWD as one book in 2005, then Winds of Winter in 2010 or whatever, then we'd be awaiting the final book right now to arrive before the show ends. As it stands, we're getting a pretty clunky, unclean ending to the series. If the final book ever does arrive, we'll already know what happens in it.
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Old July 23 2013, 07:19 PM   #2000
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Well, I don't think acknowledging that he might die or lose his motivation is "naysaying" or "doom and gloom." That might happen with any author, and is a good reason not to read ongoing series, especially very long ones that are written slowly. (There are fantasy fans who won't touch new epic series for this very reason.) And we all have instincts about what's likely that are irrational but hard to shake. As with anything, no one really knows what tomorrow will bring.

I don't think 2017 is out of the question for Winds, either.

I think allowing an adaptation while the show was ongoing was a poor decision in a lot of ways. I understand, of course, that you have to pursue network interest when it exists, but the show has exacerbated delays in the books, and is probably going to have a rough time itself constructing an ending without source material.
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Old July 23 2013, 07:22 PM   #2001
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Brendan Moody wrote: View Post
(There are fantasy fans who won't touch new epic series for this very reason.)
I've already been burned by the Dune series. At least the show finishing the story is preferable to one of GRRM's relatives and a bloody Star Wars novel writer taking over writing duties.
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Old July 23 2013, 07:26 PM   #2002
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

After the mess Brandon Sanderson made finishing The Wheel of Time, which was already bloated and not especially good, I'd rather get no ending (except TV, or even including TV) than someone else trying to finish A Song of Ice and Fire without an impossibly detailed outline.
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Old July 23 2013, 07:30 PM   #2003
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I think Brandon Sanderson is an excellent writer, though I've only read his Mistborn series.
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Old July 23 2013, 07:37 PM   #2004
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I haven't read any of his original work; I don't read much novel-length fantasy these days. I understand that some of his fans feel the recent stuff is more awkward and less polished than his early books. But in any case, his Wheel of Time ending is such a mess that it isn't even better than the plodding middle books by the original author, which make A Dance with Dragons look like A Storm of Swords. Anachronistic language, wooden dialogue, poor characterization, an utter lack of thematic subtlety... whatever gifts he has are roundly absent. He was plainly chosen for that job more because he was a prolific writer from the same publisher and a Jordan fan than because he was actually any good at writing in that world. I worry that a similar profit motive would infest any ASOIAF completion.
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Old July 23 2013, 07:52 PM   #2005
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I'd most likely not be impressed with anybody else trying to write the final novel from GRRM's notes, but if he was nearing completion on A Dream of Spring before he died, then I'd welcome a job like Christopher Tolkien did with The Silmarillion. An excellent novel and probably the best fantasy book I own. Even if it makes me angry sometimes that Christopher didn't include Dagor Dagorath. A hugely important part of the legendarium.
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Old July 24 2013, 03:04 AM   #2006
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Anyone see the GRRM interview over at io9? Very insightful and worth the read.
http://io9.com/george-r-r-martin-ans...-and-886133300
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Old July 24 2013, 03:52 PM   #2007
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Yeah, that's a nice interview. The first flat-out confirmation I've seen that the five-year gap wasn't part of the original plan, though that was always implicit in the way he talked about the development of the series. And it's good to see him moderating his often childish talk about Sliders and Doorways.
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Old July 24 2013, 05:05 PM   #2008
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Good interview, I actually agree with much of his rational regarding showing Dany in Meereen fucking up. A shame the execution didn't quite live up to that.
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Old July 24 2013, 05:08 PM   #2009
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Yeah. It's a pity that Feast and Dance, which are a generally realistic and nuanced portrayal of stuff fantasy generally skips over, have pacing problems that exacerbate their rejection by fans who think that quality is all about "battles and sword fights and assassinations."
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Old July 24 2013, 05:14 PM   #2010
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

They're both underrated by fans, especially A Feast For Crows which only has a few pacing problems, and is largely excellent. I'd rate it above the original A Game of Thrones book, actually. I think a few of the Dorne and Ironborn chapters could have been merged, and the early Brienne chapters are too slow, but other than that it's a masterful book.

For all it's huge faults A Dance With Dragons is also kinda underrated by fans as all the non-Essos stuff is really good, and I like the Arya and Victarion plots in Essos a great deal. My major gripes with that book are almost entirely to do with Tyrion and Dany's plotlines (Which take up 22 chapters!) so the sooner those 2 get to Westeros, the sooner the series will be back to the quality it should be. I'm dreading having to deal with Dany spending elongated amounts of time with the Dothraki, I'm seemingly the only fan that couldn't case less about them. Uninteresting savages.
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