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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old July 23 2013, 06:05 PM   #76
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

DalekJim wrote: View Post
The Wrath of Khan was an action/adventure film, but had a very intelligent script...
No. Wrath of Khan is riddled with nonsense, from the magical Genesis Device to embarrasingly and implausibly stupid codes ("Hours will seem like days... if we go by the book"), the Reliant somehow mis-counting planets in the Ceti Alpha system (how does one even reach Ceti Alpha VI when the system now has only five planets?) and a "superhuman genius" who is defeated because he can't comprehend that space is three dimensional.

Wrath of Khan is a fun movie, but to call it intelligent sci-fi is ridiculous.
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Old July 23 2013, 06:08 PM   #77
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Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Wrath of Khan is a fun movie, but to call it intelligent sci-fi is ridiculous.
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Old July 23 2013, 06:10 PM   #78
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Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

quit trying to look down on others because they enjoy things that you don't.
It's also annoying trying to convince someone to like something just because it's popular or made a boatload of money.
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Old July 23 2013, 06:11 PM   #79
Hober Mallow
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Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Especially as I view JJ Abrams as a shyster milking Star Trek for gold coins. It's like I'm being asked to cheer while one of my favourite things is exploited in a degrading way, for the throwaway amusement of people I totally lack respect for.
I don't like JJ Abrams' Trek, but I completely disagree with your personal assessment of the man. I have no doubt that Abrams and everyone working with him on these films is passionate about what they do. I just don't think the movies are any good.
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Old July 23 2013, 06:11 PM   #80
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Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
The Wrath of Khan was an action/adventure film, but had a very intelligent script...
No. Wrath of Khan is riddled with nonsense, from the magical Genesis Device to embarrasingly and implausibly stupid codes ("Hours will seem like days... if we go by the book"), the Reliant somehow mis-counting planets in the Ceti Alpha system (how does one even reach Ceti Alpha VI when the system now has only five planets?) and a "superhuman genius" who is defeated because he can't comprehend that space is three dimensional.

Wrath of Khan is a fun movie, but to call it intelligent sci-fi is ridiculous.
Those rose-tinted nostalgia glasses at work.

I like for Star Trek to be fun, first and foremost. If something isn't fun to watch then what's the point in wasting time with it? Life's short, I want to enjoy it.
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Old July 23 2013, 06:12 PM   #81
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Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Wrath of Khan is a fun movie, but to call it intelligent sci-fi is ridiculous.
It's still more intelligent than JJ Trek.
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Old July 23 2013, 06:14 PM   #82
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Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

mos6507 wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Wrath of Khan is a fun movie, but to call it intelligent sci-fi is ridiculous.
It's still more intelligent than JJ Trek.
Says who?

They both make the audiences buy into incredible leaps in logic in order to enjoy the story.
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Old July 23 2013, 06:14 PM   #83
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

DalekJim wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Wrath of Khan is a fun movie, but to call it intelligent sci-fi is ridiculous.
I can only assume that since you like it, you've decided it must be smart. Perhaps your tastes aren't quite as sophisticated as you'd like to think.
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Old July 23 2013, 06:19 PM   #84
Konata Izumi
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Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

This is now a general Abrams' effect on the franchise thread.
DalekJim wrote: View Post
Even when it comes to brainless action movies, I'd say Skyfall, The Dark Knight Rises and The Avengers were much more enjoyable than Star Trek Into Darkness. It was a pretty lackluster action film, even compared to others it was competing with like Iron Man 3 or Man of Steel.
Did you see Olympus Has Fallen? The imagery of the AGGRESSIVE president and the falling flag is something I'm not forgetting any time soon
DalekJim wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I go to the movies to have fun. You might want to try it sometime.
Thinking can be fun!

I just hate what Abrams had done to the fandom. Trek fandom used to be proud of prioritising intelligent writing over mindless action. Now if you prefer the former, you get this aggressive, meat-headed reaction that you're not doing it right or whatever. It's unpleasant.
Moving on.

There's been many claims to the effect that, the largest scale action movie is the only way Trek could have come back at all. Yet lower budget sci-fi movies happen all the time, and Trek of course has been done with very limited sets and special effects, so I don't see how this wouldn't have been one way to go? It doesn't even mean that things would look how they did back then, as cgi can be used on stuff costing only a few mills to impressive results.

Of course they're not shifting down biznezz now that they went into this direction. But even still it's not totally unheard of to do things a bit differently even in big money movies. A storyline like in Inception might be ridiculously rare, and even that had tons of action, but that's one example, and then there's Prometheus, which is more horror with philosophy (whether you found it any good or not), so ways indeed exist where the franchise even with big budgets could go...

Going back to Abrams, I was kinda looking forward to how the movie would look with a different director now that Abrams has done two, I guess that still is happening. If he did direct the next one, I don't know if he still has anything to give in terms of directing, as STiD seemed directed way more autopilot than 09 which had way more inspired directing.

In terms of producing, I still find it alright that he revived the franchise in 09, but, how long is he going to stay in charge, only to give 2 hours of action every 3-4 years? Seems like he's content with reviving it into more like a zombie, perfectly capable of making money, rather than a franchise that actually produces content, they should be moving on by now..

I've met lots of people programmed to think that money is the only thing a company ought to do, but even if most people in charge think that, there are actually at least two sides in any exchange, why'd you think the other should be all but ignored. You don't need to do anything about it, but you can at least recognise it as a fact.

When is the 'revival' starting to take full effect?

Last edited by Konata Izumi; July 23 2013 at 06:48 PM. Reason: forgot last line, then internet broke
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Old July 23 2013, 06:23 PM   #85
Hober Mallow
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Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

Konata Izumi, how dare you interrupt a pissing contest.
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Old July 23 2013, 06:27 PM   #86
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Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
Especially as I view JJ Abrams as a shyster milking Star Trek for gold coins. It's like I'm being asked to cheer while one of my favourite things is exploited in a degrading way, for the throwaway amusement of people I totally lack respect for.
I don't like JJ Abrams' Trek, but I completely disagree with your personal assessment of the man. I have no doubt that Abrams and everyone working with him on these films is passionate about what they do. I just don't think the movies are any good.
THANK YOU! Seriously, if your opinion of the films are negative, that's perfectly fine, but he doesn't seem to get that the personal attacks on the man are ridiculous, and make the rest of his opinions seem just as asinine.
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Old July 23 2013, 06:40 PM   #87
trevanian
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Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

Konata Izumi wrote: View Post
This is now a general Abrams' effect on the franchise thread.
DalekJim wrote: View Post
Even when it comes to brainless action movies, I'd say Skyfall, The Dark Knight Rises and The Avengers were much more enjoyable than Star Trek Into Darkness. It was a pretty lackluster action film, even compared to others it was competing with like Iron Man 3 or Man of Steel.
Did you see Olympus Has Fallen? The imagery of the AGGRESSIVE president and the falling flag is something I'm not forgetting any time soon
DalekJim wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I go to the movies to have fun. You might want to try it sometime.
Thinking can be fun!

I just hate what Abrams had done to the fandom. Trek fandom used to be proud of prioritising intelligent writing over mindless action. Now if you prefer the former, you get this aggressive, meat-headed reaction that you're not doing it right or whatever. It's unpleasant.
Moving on.

There's been many claims to the effect that, the largest scale action movie is the only way Trek could have come back at all. Yet lower budget sci-fi movies happen all the time, and Trek of course has been done with very limited sets and special effects, so I don't see how this wouldn't have been one way to go? It doesn't even mean that things would look how they did back then, as cgi can be used on stuff costing only a few mills to impressive results.

Of course they're not shifting down biznezz now that they went into this direction. But even still it's not totally unheard of to do things a bit differently even in big money movies. A storyline like in Inception might be ridiculously rare, and even that had tons of action, but that's one example, and then there's Prometheus, which is more horror with philosophy (whether you found it any good or not), so ways indeed exist where the franchise even with big budgets could go...
I think a DREDD or SERENITY budgeted TREK would have been the way to go, with a strong story and unknowns and having the ability to scale up with successive films. You've got the name to draw a certain number, regardless of budget, and the possibility of attracting others on the basis of it being a good movie, AND you limit your investment, which means you don't have to spend another fortune on promotion.
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Old July 23 2013, 06:46 PM   #88
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Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

BillJ wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
The Wrath of Khan was an action/adventure film, but had a very intelligent script...
No. Wrath of Khan is riddled with nonsense, from the magical Genesis Device to embarrasingly and implausibly stupid codes ("Hours will seem like days... if we go by the book"), the Reliant somehow mis-counting planets in the Ceti Alpha system (how does one even reach Ceti Alpha VI when the system now has only five planets?) and a "superhuman genius" who is defeated because he can't comprehend that space is three dimensional.

Wrath of Khan is a fun movie, but to call it intelligent sci-fi is ridiculous.
Those rose-tinted nostalgia glasses at work.

I like for Star Trek to be fun, first and foremost. If something isn't fun to watch then what's the point in wasting time with it? Life's short, I want to enjoy it.
Bingo.

I had fun with STID. I drank the hatorade on ST(09) when it came out and have since given the movie a shot without trying to hold it up to the what's come before and found it to be a fun movie with some really great scenes in it.

TMP is still may favorite ST movie. I still think FC is dull as dishwater and is basically a DS9 fanfic with TNG characters. I think Enterprise was ruined by to much catering to fans at the end and not enough risks taken in the first three seasons to make it stand out from what had come before.

The only rule I ascribe to Trek is entertain me and be fun to watch.
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Old July 23 2013, 06:52 PM   #89
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Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

trevanian wrote: View Post

I think a DREDD or SERENITY budgeted TREK would have been the way to go, with a strong story and unknowns and having the ability to scale up with successive films. You've got the name to draw a certain number, regardless of budget, and the possibility of attracting others on the basis of it being a good movie, AND you limit your investment, which means you don't have to spend another fortune on promotion.
Of course you can go that way. But that's not the way Paramount chose to go and it's asinine to blame Abrams because Paramount decided that they wanted to make big-budget Trek. He simply stepped up to the plate and made the films.

And let's be honest, even the cheapest Trek film (The Wrath of Khan) had glaring lapses in logic. Spending less money doesn't preclude that from happening.
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Old July 23 2013, 07:02 PM   #90
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Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

Tom Servo wrote: View Post
And my god, can we get over the "I didn't make this movie for Star Trek fans, but for movie fans"....THANK GOD. That's what any director would have done, given the property. You have to make a movie for the general audience, not just a select fan base, especially in the case of Star Trek. The core Star Trek fan base is what went out to see Nemesis, and watched Enterprise, and we saw how those did. Plus, I've seen so many online proposals from fans, over what should have been the future of the franchise, and while a few are decent, most are some of the most fanwankish material ever written. That would NEVER work as a mainstream film.
Amen. As I've written before, STAR TREK is not just for Trekkies and was never meant to be some sort of exclusive, elitist thing aimed only at the cognoscenti. A good STAR TREK movie (or TV show) needs to appeal to general audiences and casual Trek fans as well.

"Popular" and "accessible" are not dirty words, and some of the best Trek has been made by people who weren't long-time Trek fans. (Hello, Nicholas Meyer and Harve Bennett.)

Of course, you DON'T make a Trek movie just for the hardcore fans. That's not disrespectful. It's just common sense.
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