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Old July 22 2013, 05:12 PM   #271
Flying Spaghetti Monster
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

I always found it ridiculous that studios have to race the clock to make film lest they lose the rights to a franchise. It's a perfect reason/ excuse to pump out shabby films.

I think the "no killing" rules are somewhat shoddy myself. Certainly a hero would be above that if they have a choice, but some situations they might not have a choice. I just hate the way, like in TDK trilogy, they establish it like a rule. To me, it's more common sense.
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Old July 22 2013, 05:17 PM   #272
Icemizer
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

I'm looking forward to seeing what villians are introduced to take on the worlds finest.
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Old July 22 2013, 05:17 PM   #273
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

^ I still hope it's Lex.
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Old July 22 2013, 05:41 PM   #274
Set Harth
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
I just hate the way, like in TDK trilogy, they establish it like a rule.
A rule which gets broken in each film of said trilogy.
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Old July 22 2013, 05:45 PM   #275
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
Cartoonist wrote: View Post
Turtletrekker wrote: View Post

Seriously. Ever since MOS came out I keep hearing this line that Superman killed Zod in Superman II and still shocks me every time it comes up. I never, EVER thought or believed for a single second that Supes left them to die and rot at the bottom of that pit any more than I thought he left Luthor there to freeze. And we know that that wasn't the film makers intent because they filmed a scene with Zod and Co. being taken into custody that was only cut for time and pacing reasons.
They included the scene where Superman delivers Luthor (and ONLY Luthor) to jail. Whether they cut a Zod-in-custody scene for timing or for content, the fact remains they cut it, leaving the distinct impression that Luthor was the only one left alive to be taken into custody. Even the Richard Donner cut deletes the scene showing them alive, which leaves us to think he threw Zod to an icy death in that pit that's so deep we don't ever hear him hit bottom.

He also killed them in the comics, after the pocket universe Zod massacred the population on Superboy's Earth (same thing this Zod promised to do in MoS). Superman executed them with kryptonite. Superman also beat Doomsday to death in the comics. So not only was Superman killing consistent with the Reeves film, it was consistent with the comic books.
No (at least IIRC), we only saw Superman delivering Lex into custody in the first movie. In the second, we see him and Lois flying away from the Fortress while listening to Lex ramble on as they leave. But, as I said, I never believed that Superman left him there to freeze. Besides, the basic rule of thumb in comics is, "If we don't see a body, then they are not dead."
Yes, but the basic rule of thumb in film and TV is, when the villain plummets down a bottomless pit, he's dead. "The Emperor" in RoTJ, for instance. Several Disney villains. Gul Dukat in DS9. In film it's used to evoke the concept of the villain plummeting to hell, and it's pretty universally-understood that when it happens, the villain is dead. http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Bottomless_Pit

And I know about the comics you mention. I own them, and indeed bought them off the shelf the day they were released. That issue was also the issue that I dropped Superman with becdause, yes, as a reader, I was disturbed by the story.

And as I understand it, his actions in those comics with Zod led to an ongoing series of psychological issues with Clark, rather than the breif "boo-hoo-hoo" we saw in MoS.
That cry of agony was more than a "brief boo-hoo-hoo," and it was MUCH more than Reeves' smirk in Superman II. As someone posted on another forum, "it's like people wanted them to spend 20 minutes at the end of the film showing Superman crying in a corner." He was clearly devastated. And the scene that followed was clearly a time-jump to some point in the future, probably days or weeks later. It was a brief scene and we have no way of knowing what he was thinking during that scene. For all you know, his actions will still be haunting him in 2015's Superman/Batman film. It may haunt him, and it may worry Batman, and that may influence the way they interact.
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Old July 22 2013, 05:56 PM   #276
Set Harth
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Cartoonist wrote:
The Emperor" in RoTJ, for instance.
It helps that he exploded.
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Old July 22 2013, 05:58 PM   #277
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

"World's Finest" or "Superman · Batman: World's Finest" both work for me as far as film titles go.

At any rate, I am looking forward to this as long as Batman doesn't hog too much of the spotlight.

Last edited by Savage Dragon; July 22 2013 at 06:46 PM.
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Old July 22 2013, 06:03 PM   #278
Galileo7
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Christopher wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Who says they're trying to set up a new Batman franchise.
What they're trying to set up is a DC Universe franchise, and there's no way they'd do that without Batman being an ongoing part of it.
Agree.
I just hope that the Batman established in the Man Of Steel 2 is done right.
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Old July 22 2013, 06:06 PM   #279
Greg Cox
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

TheSeeker wrote: View Post
"World's Finest" or "Superman · Batman: World's Finest" both work for me as far as film titles go.

At any rate, I am looking froward to this as long as Batman doesn't hog too much of the spotlight.
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but "World's Finest" just sounds too "Silver Age" . . .

It seems both old-fashioned and overly fannish.
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Old July 22 2013, 06:12 PM   #280
Turtletrekker
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Cartoonist wrote: View Post
Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
Cartoonist wrote: View Post

They included the scene where Superman delivers Luthor (and ONLY Luthor) to jail. Whether they cut a Zod-in-custody scene for timing or for content, the fact remains they cut it, leaving the distinct impression that Luthor was the only one left alive to be taken into custody. Even the Richard Donner cut deletes the scene showing them alive, which leaves us to think he threw Zod to an icy death in that pit that's so deep we don't ever hear him hit bottom.

He also killed them in the comics, after the pocket universe Zod massacred the population on Superboy's Earth (same thing this Zod promised to do in MoS). Superman executed them with kryptonite. Superman also beat Doomsday to death in the comics. So not only was Superman killing consistent with the Reeves film, it was consistent with the comic books.
No (at least IIRC), we only saw Superman delivering Lex into custody in the first movie. In the second, we see him and Lois flying away from the Fortress while listening to Lex ramble on as they leave. But, as I said, I never believed that Superman left him there to freeze. Besides, the basic rule of thumb in comics is, "If we don't see a body, then they are not dead."
Yes, but the basic rule of thumb in film and TV is, when the villain plummets down a bottomless pit, he's dead. "The Emperor" in RoTJ, for instance. Several Disney villains. Gul Dukat in DS9. In film it's used to evoke the concept of the villain plummeting to hell, and it's pretty universally-understood that when it happens, the villain is dead. http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Bottomless_Pit

And I know about the comics you mention. I own them, and indeed bought them off the shelf the day they were released. That issue was also the issue that I dropped Superman with becdause, yes, as a reader, I was disturbed by the story.

And as I understand it, his actions in those comics with Zod led to an ongoing series of psychological issues with Clark, rather than the breif "boo-hoo-hoo" we saw in MoS.
That cry of agony was more than a "brief boo-hoo-hoo," and it was MUCH more than Reeves' smirk in Superman II. As someone posted on another forum, "it's like people wanted them to spend 20 minutes at the end of the film showing Superman crying in a corner." He was clearly devastated. And the scene that followed was clearly a time-jump to some point in the future, probably days or weeks later. It was a brief scene and we have no way of knowing what he was thinking during that scene. For all you know, his actions will still be haunting him in 2015's Superman/Batman film. It may haunt him, and it may worry Batman, and that may influence the way they interact.
Well, we actually SAW the Emperor hit the reactor, so that can't count as a bottomless pit, and even THAT didn't stop the EU from bringing him back. As for Dukat, they specifically said that he wasn't dead, but rather "With them, where he belongs". How many bottomless pits have the Joker and the Red Skull fallen into?

And I sincerely do hope that future MoS installments pick up on Clark's feelings about Zod's death, but I also sincerely doubt that it will be too heavily dwelt upon.
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Old July 22 2013, 06:15 PM   #281
Cartoonist
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Cartoonist wrote:
The Emperor" in RoTJ, for instance.
It helps that he exploded.
We didn't see the Emperor explode. The emperor receded so far into the distance that he nearly disappeared. He became too small for us to see what he was doing. In that instant, we saw energy rise out of the pit. Someone who wants to say "unless we see a body, he's not dead," could easily say that was Palpatine performing some sort of really powerful force-lightning trick to slow his descent and escape.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yWR5jePoH8

But nobody ever says that. Because it's understood that when a villain plummets down a "bottomless pit," he's dead.

Heroes face a different fate when they fall down the pit: they always either survive or are transformed into some sort of powerful spirit (Captain Sisko, Captain Sheridan, Gandalf, Luke Skywalker... Jesus...)
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Old July 22 2013, 06:23 PM   #282
DalekJim
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but "World's Finest" just sounds too "Silver Age" . . .

It seems both old-fashioned and overly fannish.
I don't dread to imagine what "overly fannish" means (Are fans worse than normal people or something?), but it's no cornier than The Avengers as a title.
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Old July 22 2013, 06:23 PM   #283
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

The Stig wrote: View Post
There's zero chance, to my mind, that the Batman in the upcoming MoS sequel will have any resemblance to the Nolan Batman. He will be completely rebooted and the previous continuity will be ignored. Just as well, I'd prefer the excellent Nolan trilogy to be untainted by the shitty MoS and its inevitably shitty sequel.
He will be completely rebooted but seeing as it will be by one of the same writers (David Goyer), I doubt very much that he'll be completely without any resemblance to the most recent incarnation. I'd expect them to be adhering very closely to the formula, with the obvious exception that this Batman will live in a world populated by superheroes.
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Old July 22 2013, 06:27 PM   #284
Dorian Thompson
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

At any rate, I am looking froward to this as long as Batman doesn't hog too much of the spotlight.
I wouldn't bet the farm on that.
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Old July 22 2013, 06:30 PM   #285
davejames
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
I think the "no killing" rules are somewhat shoddy myself. Certainly a hero would be above that if they have a choice, but some situations they might not have a choice. I just hate the way, like in TDK trilogy, they establish it like a rule. To me, it's more common sense.
Agreed. Although my problem is more with just the implausibility of it. There's no way Batman could get in all those fights with people, or throw people into walls and such, without inadvertently killing someone now and then, or giving them severe brain damage.

We see plenty of news stories where all it took was one punch to kill someone during a bar fight, after all.

And Superman is not always going to be able to imprison or throw into a dimensional portal every superpowered alien or creature he fights.
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