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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old July 22 2013, 06:01 AM   #16
Roboturner913
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Re: Vic Fontaine

I liked the character, and who is to say that late 24th century humans wouldn't find the 1960's interesting? For all we know the study of 20th century pop culture is all the rage among intellectuals at that point in time of DS9's run, thus the ultra-realistic casino/lounge program was created.

I could've done without "Its Only a Paper Moon," but if you look at it from Nog's perspective, it kind of makes sense. It's not like Nog can go talk to the local bartender because it's Quark.
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Old July 22 2013, 06:06 AM   #17
Melakon
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Re: Vic Fontaine

ThirdNacelle wrote:
Why is it only humans from the past who are allowed to have pop culture?


Because Vulcan couldn't produce any stand-up comics.
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Old July 22 2013, 06:23 AM   #18
Roboturner913
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Re: Vic Fontaine

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
Why isn't anyone ever nostalgic about 22nd-century Betazed, or 19th-century Romulus?
We've seen references to Ferengi pop culture (Marauder Mo, Sluggo Cola). It stands to reason that it exists everywhere else and in much greater quantities. We just don't see it because we're following human characters most of the time.
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Old July 22 2013, 12:59 PM   #19
Sigokat
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Re: Vic Fontaine

I didn't care for Vic. I'm not a fan of the 1960s era of entertainment of cheesy lounge singers and guady decor.

I watched DS9 for Star Trek, sci-fi, and space battles. If I wanted cheese I'd watch an old Rat Pack movie or listen to some Frank Sinatra crap.

But that's just me. To each his own.
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Old July 22 2013, 01:07 PM   #20
R. Star
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Re: Vic Fontaine

Meh, really was overused in my opinion. The whole 50's Vegas bit was just... completely out of setting, especially when Vic was seemingly smarter than the rest of the cast. James Daren is pretty good at singing but, when you have episodes like His Way filled with half that, it's not exactly what I'm tuning in for.
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Old July 22 2013, 01:23 PM   #21
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Vic Fontaine

I had no problems with Vic Fontaine per se, and Paper Moon was a big payoff for the casino narrative. However, the fact that it was a holodeck fantasy was unnerving. Even from the 1990s, it seemed like a dated premise, an idealized vision of an era that was just the veneer that covered corruption.

On the other hand, the casino was a symptom of the problem of much of Star Trek: the unwillingness to make downtime interesting, particularly to inject some romance. DS9 needed a nightclub where people could dress up, not a holographic program where they could play at being glamorous. Instead, social life on DS9 is little better than a futuristic mall: you hang out at the food court and shop at the boutiques. And the Starfleet people are so stolid: unless they are in costume for the purpose of the holodeck, they are always in uniform.
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Old July 22 2013, 01:24 PM   #22
teacake
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Re: Vic Fontaine

I hated Vic the first time I watched DS9, utterly cringe worthy.

Like most things I ended up just fine and kind of fond of him after a few more rewatches.

I agree with 3rd Nacelle though, show us a huge nostalgia for something NOT US. Another planet or a time in our future. So much potential there.

I guess the funny thing to me is I couldn't give a rats about Sinatra and Vegas and that era and I can't fathom why it would be interesting to people on DS9. Surely there were glory days as Earth rebuilt itself post first contact, and glory days when humans colonized Mars and settled on other worlds that people could be nostalgic over. A MARS NIGHTCLUB! It's not that hard to be really really sci fi and cool with a fictional nostalgic time.
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Old July 22 2013, 01:35 PM   #23
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Vic Fontaine

I will give the '50s Vegas theme some credit: TNG could be very dismissive of popular culture. I could be personally involving, like Dixon Hill, but lacking popular appeal. And Riker played the mustiest, most passionless Jazz, almost bereft of any awareness of the history of the genre.. At least Vic's was something that all the characters could share and relate to in their own way. Too bad the writers didn't have the courage to also use Vic's as a stage for similar efforts of other cultures (even other human cultures).
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Old July 22 2013, 02:19 PM   #24
Pavonis
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Re: Vic Fontaine

As a matter of fact, Vic's was 1960s Vegas themed, not 1950s. He said more than once it was set in 1962.
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Old July 22 2013, 02:37 PM   #25
dub
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Re: Vic Fontaine

Why? Because the audience was in on the joke. It was a fun way for some of the characters to be fish out of water types while at the same time the audience is familiar or at least somewhat familiar (and in some cases, directly familiar) with the culture/music/character types shown.

How would an entire senior staff of a 24th century space station become so interested in this program?
  • Step 1 - Bashir annoys everybody to death until they check it out.
  • Step 2 - Odo voluntarily accesses the Vic program and spends a lot of time in the holosuite. Odo.
  • Step 3 - After some time in the holosuite, Odo scores Kira. Odo!
  • Step 4 - Everybody wants to check out this holosuite program!
  • Step 5 - Like teacake, some of them are annoyed at first but eventually it grows on them.


Plus, those episodes were just a lot of fun and they were able to do some nice things with the characters. As for me, I loved Vic's character from the beginning, but it doesn't hurt that I actually enjoy that style of music from time to time anyway. I found him and the setting to be charming additions to the show. Now if they had a Kesha type as a recurring character, I'm sure I would have a different opinion.

My only problem with Vic is he highlighted one of the weaknesses of the newest main character - Ezri. They brought in Ezri and gave her the title of station counselor. I think they gave her one episode where she was playing the counselor role with Garak, but I don't remember much after that aside from a mention here or there. Vic actually became the station's counselor (he wasn't given that title, but that's what he became). He really became the station's counselor starting with "His Way," and then when he became a recurring character, that really became his function through the end of the series. And I loved it! It was certainly unique and worked well for a short run (season and a half). Much better than a Troi-like character for this setting. I think it worked well for wartime. But then Ezri was just there, sometimes pushing buttons on the Defiant and being more of a Jadzia type, and sometimes she was "just there." That bothered me a little. But there was so much going on by the end of season 7, I didn't let it ruin the show for me.
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Old July 22 2013, 03:00 PM   #26
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Vic Fontaine

Pavonis wrote: View Post
As a matter of fact, Vic's was 1960s Vegas themed, not 1950s. He said more than once it was set in 1962.
That was a typo. But for the sake of argument, 1962 was little different from 1959 Las Vegas, and the Strip wasn't undergoing the rapid cultural and social transformation of, say, the East Village or the Castro.
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Old July 22 2013, 04:43 PM   #27
Pavonis
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Re: Vic Fontaine

I think it would have been funny if the Vic program wasn't so historically accurate. If there had been some anachronisms, say, cell phones or laptops in the bar area. Afterall, as far as Bashir and the others are concerned, the 1960s and the 1990s are the same era. This Felix guy must be a history buff as well as a top-notch holoprogrammer.
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Old July 22 2013, 06:23 PM   #28
LobsterAfternoon
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Re: Vic Fontaine

Plus using a Holodeck for something as boring as Vic is a waste. When holodecks can have you doing zero g space dives or running a Christina Hendricks/Tina Fey massage program, why would you use it to listen to some annoying old crooner?
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Old July 22 2013, 06:39 PM   #29
Pavonis
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Re: Vic Fontaine

Why use a holodeck for zero-g anything? You can just go outside to do that. Or just turn off the gravity in the gym or your quarters.

Holosuites are primarily used for "pleasure programs", as far as Quark is concerned, so I'm sure there are plenty of massage programs in his library. But even the internet is used for more than porn, so why should the holosuites be so limited?
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Old July 22 2013, 06:39 PM   #30
Melakon
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Re: Vic Fontaine

It's too bad Vic wasn't patterned after Robert Palmer or David Byrne or Peter Gabriel. But no, they had to do Sinatra.
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