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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old July 21 2013, 12:57 AM   #16
Nerys Myk
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Re: shared universe, crossovers and easter eggs

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post

[Stares at the ceiling and whistles innocently.]
Greg Cox, you're a bad man !
I confess: John Ordover and I had way too much fun sneaking easter eggs into those books.
But Hadji?
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Old July 21 2013, 01:11 AM   #17
Greg Cox
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Re: shared universe, crossovers and easter eggs

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post

Greg Cox, you're a bad man !
I confess: John Ordover and I had way too much fun sneaking easter eggs into those books.
But Hadji?
That was Ordover's idea!
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Old July 21 2013, 01:17 AM   #18
Relayer1
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Re: shared universe, crossovers and easter eggs

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post

[Stares at the ceiling and whistles innocently.]
Greg Cox, you're a bad man !
I confess: John Ordover and I had way too much fun sneaking easter eggs into those books.
I hope you both feel suitably ashamed now.
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Old July 21 2013, 01:22 AM   #19
Sto-Vo-Kory
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Re: shared universe, crossovers and easter eggs

Christopher wrote: View Post
Besides, it's probably hard to find a modern SFTV series that doesn't have characters making references to Star Trek as a fictional series at some point. I don't recall if there were any in Alphas, but I'd be surprised if there weren't.
.
Star Trek is a hard one, because it is so pervasive in pop culture.

I ran into the same problem when trying to define my own personal continuity for the X-Files and which series I could include as sharing that same universe. Lone Gunmen and Millenium were easy no-brainers and Fringe went out of its way to include itself in the X-Files' world, but I really wanted to insert Supernatural into this continuity out of a personal preference on my part. Problem being, in the pilot episode of Supernatural, a couple of extras call the main characters "Mulder and Scully" and over the course of the series, references to Mulder and/or Scully have been rampant.

My go-to fix for this sort of continuity problem is the X-Files episode "Hollywood AD." In this episode, a movie studio makes a film called "The Lazarus Bowl" with Garry Shandling and Tea Leoni playing characters named "Mulder" and "Scully" respectively. From this, I just imagine that the movie became a huge hit in this universe, enough of a hit for people to reference, and I can now include Supernatural and many other shows or movies that name drop Mulder/Scully without much hand waving at all.

Off hand, I can't remember a Trek episode that could explain away in-universe references to "beam me up" or "Vulcan neck grips" in the modern day of the Trekverse. Was there any mention of a "Trek-like" TV show in Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars series?
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Old July 21 2013, 01:26 AM   #20
Greg Cox
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Re: shared universe, crossovers and easter eggs

Sto-Vo-Kory wrote: View Post

Off hand, I can't remember a Trek episode that could explain away in-universe references to "beam me up" or "Vulcan neck grips" in the modern day of the Trekverse. Was there any mention of a "Trek-like" TV show in Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars series?
Not that I recall, although there were some "Captain Proton" references in the third Khan book.

As I recall, I was sometimes coy and phrased things so that it was ambiguous as to whether, say, Emma Peel was being referenced as a real person or a fictional character on a TV show.
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Old July 21 2013, 01:59 AM   #21
Christopher
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Re: shared universe, crossovers and easter eggs

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
As I recall, I was sometimes coy and phrased things so that it was ambiguous as to whether, say, Emma Peel was being referenced as a real person or a fictional character on a TV show.
So, the way they handled Superman's appearance on I Love Lucy. Is it George Reeves as Superman, or is it actually Superman?
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Old July 21 2013, 02:12 AM   #22
Therin of Andor
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Re: shared universe, crossovers and easter eggs

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Marvel comics exist in Trek's universe
And vice versa.


Amazing Spider-Man and ST:TMP by Therin of Andor, on Flickr


Amazing Spider-Man and ST:TMP, part 2 by Therin of Andor, on Flickr


Amazing Spider-Man and ST:TMP, part 3 by Therin of Andor, on Flickr
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Old July 21 2013, 02:23 AM   #23
Greg Cox
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Re: shared universe, crossovers and easter eggs

Christopher wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
As I recall, I was sometimes coy and phrased things so that it was ambiguous as to whether, say, Emma Peel was being referenced as a real person or a fictional character on a TV show.
So, the way they handled Superman's appearance on I Love Lucy. Is it George Reeves as Superman, or is it actually Superman?
Ditto for John Carradine's appearance as Dracula on an old episode of McCloud titled, appropriately enough, "McCloud Meets Dracula."

(How's that for an obscure bit of pop cultural trivia?)
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Old July 21 2013, 02:32 AM   #24
Christopher
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Re: shared universe, crossovers and easter eggs

^I don't remember that one.
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Old July 21 2013, 05:33 AM   #25
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Re: shared universe, crossovers and easter eggs

Christopher wrote: View Post
Besides, it's probably hard to find a modern SFTV series that doesn't have characters making references to Star Trek as a fictional series at some point.
Past references aren't enough to stop crossovers; there's been several Trek references on Doctor Who, but there was still consideration of trying to do a crossover episode (before Enterprise was cancelled), and IDW later released a TNG/DW crossover comic.

(And past crossovers aren't enough to stop references. The lead character of In Plain Sight cameoed on Law & Order: Criminal Intent before the show aired; but my understanding is that the writers of IPS later made reference to Law & Order as a TV show.)
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Old July 21 2013, 06:58 AM   #26
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Re: shared universe, crossovers and easter eggs

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
E-DUB wrote: View Post
I seem to remember a reference in one of Cox's "Khan" books to a character who could have been Jamie Summers.
[Stares at the ceiling and whistles innocently.]

As for shows that have referenced Trek as a TV show . . . off the top of my head, I can think of LOST, WAREHOUSE 13, FARSCAPE, and, er, BIG BANG THEORY.

And I'd be seriously surprised if neither CASTLE or BUFFY ever referenced Trek, as the pop-culture references fly fast and furious on those shows.
I'm watching an old episode of Castle on one of my local channels, and Beckett just made a reference to Klingons. So there's at least one in Castle.
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Old July 21 2013, 02:05 PM   #27
Christopher
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Re: shared universe, crossovers and easter eggs

ATimson wrote: View Post
Past references aren't enough to stop crossovers; there's been several Trek references on Doctor Who, but there was still consideration of trying to do a crossover episode (before Enterprise was cancelled), and IDW later released a TNG/DW crossover comic.
And there were many Trek references in X-Men and other Marvel comics before the X-Men/Trek crossovers were done. But such crossovers are out-of-continuity "imaginary stories." Although maybe in DW it could be justified, given that there is precedent for the TARDIS crossing into fictional realms (e.g. "The Mind Robber").


(And past crossovers aren't enough to stop references. The lead character of In Plain Sight cameoed on Law & Order: Criminal Intent before the show aired; but my understanding is that the writers of IPS later made reference to Law & Order as a TV show.)
Sure, such things slip through sometimes, but that doesn't make it desirable to cross over two universes that have referenced each other as fiction. I feel it undermines believability, and if a universe has referred to Trek as fiction, then for me, that rules it out as a candidate for inclusion in Trek history.


JD wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
And I'd be seriously surprised if neither CASTLE or BUFFY ever referenced Trek, as the pop-culture references fly fast and furious on those shows.
I'm watching an old episode of Castle on one of my local channels, and Beckett just made a reference to Klingons. So there's at least one in Castle.
Castle and Beckett are both big SF/comics fans, so I'm sure there have been a number of Trek references among all the other sci-fi/fantasy nods. There must've been some in the SF-convention episode they did (not sure this counts, but there was a William Shatner spoken-word song played over the final scene of that episode).
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Old July 21 2013, 02:20 PM   #28
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Re: shared universe, crossovers and easter eggs

I wish there was a Doctor Who crossover during Star Trek's original run. Patrick Troughton was the Doctor then...that would have been fantastic. But a dream is just a dream.
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Old July 21 2013, 02:28 PM   #29
Relayer1
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Re: shared universe, crossovers and easter eggs

I just don't think most franchises lend themselves to crossovers with Trek, particularly Dr Who. Not only do history and technology not fit, neither do the laws of physics. And as Scotty says, 'You cannae change the laws of physics...'
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Old July 21 2013, 02:31 PM   #30
Christopher
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Re: shared universe, crossovers and easter eggs

Kinokima wrote: View Post
I wish there was a Doctor Who crossover during Star Trek's original run. Patrick Troughton was the Doctor then...that would have been fantastic. But a dream is just a dream.
Yeah, that would've been pretty much impossible. British audiences never saw Star Trek until July 1969, three weeks after the final Troughton episode ended and about six weeks after TOS's final episode aired. And US audiences didn't see Doctor Who until the '70s, in limited release, and then more widely in the '80s. So at the time both shows were on the air, neither show's audience would've had any awareness of the other, and indeed neither show's producers would've been likely to have much awareness of the other.


Relayer1 wrote: View Post
I just don't think most franchises lend themselves to crossovers with Trek, particularly Dr Who. Not only do history and technology not fit, neither do the laws of physics. And as Scotty says, 'You cannae change the laws of physics...'
Yeah, as I remarked, that's the crux of the problem. The fundamental worldbuilding is often so different that you just can't reconcile different universes.

I think it's been suggested that it might be possible to fit Blake's 7 into the Trek continuity as a dystopian future, one where the Federation has turned oppressive and evil. It probably doesn't fit due to the lack of established Trek races, though. I do think it's possible to fit B7 into Doctor Who's much looser future history, though.
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