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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old July 21 2013, 06:05 AM   #16
Zippo and Flask
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Re: Worst example of Voyager ruining an opportunity to return home

How about the chances that may have existed from the appearances of Q?

Janeway stresses over and over again how devoted she is to getting her crew home. If that's so, shouldn't she have taken one for the team and let Q have his way with her, to get her crew home?

Seriously, if an omnipotent being arrives and you are in a desperate situation, would you act like such a bitch?
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Old July 21 2013, 06:26 AM   #17
Dream
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Re: Worst example of Voyager ruining an opportunity to return home

Zippo and Flask wrote: View Post
Seriously, if an omnipotent being arrives and you are in a desperate situation, would you act like such a bitch?
Janeway wasn't being a bitch. She treated Q like he was dangerous troublemaker, Sisko did the same.
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Old July 21 2013, 06:35 AM   #18
Zippo and Flask
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Re: Worst example of Voyager ruining an opportunity to return home

Dream wrote: View Post
Janeway wasn't being a bitch. She treated Q like he was dangerous troublemaker, Sisko did the same.
I'm 70 years away from home. A guy arrives who, with the flick of his fingers, could get me home. I tell him to get off my ship.

Yeah, I was wrong. Definitely not a blown opportunity.
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Old July 21 2013, 06:49 AM   #19
Guy Gardener
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Re: Worst example of Voyager ruining an opportunity to return home

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
False Profits is easily the worst example. I don't think they broke the prime directive but it's ridiculous how the Ferengi managed to escape to their ship.

False Profits is worse than Threshold.
Janeway faked prophecy.

This would be the same as Harry dressing up as Jesus, materializing on centre stage of the Ed Sullivan Show 1966, upstaging the Beatles, claiming to be the second coming while using 24th century technology to fake a couple miracles, signalling that the end of days was finally over.

That would trigger some serious shit world wide as the lines of religious adversity conformed and waited for the second wave of rapture to grab them...

Janeway altered the development of that world removing those Ferengi cleverly just as easily as she had surreptitiously.
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Old July 21 2013, 08:34 PM   #20
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Worst example of Voyager ruining an opportunity to return home

Zippo and Flask wrote: View Post
How about the chances that may have existed from the appearances of Q?

Janeway stresses over and over again how devoted she is to getting her crew home. If that's so, shouldn't she have taken one for the team and let Q have his way with her, to get her crew home?

Seriously, if an omnipotent being arrives and you are in a desperate situation, would you act like such a bitch?
Not whoring yourself out = being a bitch? ...Wow.

@Guy

The Ferengi were exploiting the entire population for personal gain by lying to them and manipulating their religion. Stopping them is the same as seeing somebody robbed on the street and stopping the robber.
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Old July 21 2013, 08:47 PM   #21
Anwar
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Re: Worst example of Voyager ruining an opportunity to return home

Zippo and Flask wrote: View Post
How about the chances that may have existed from the appearances of Q?

Janeway stresses over and over again how devoted she is to getting her crew home. If that's so, shouldn't she have taken one for the team and let Q have his way with her, to get her crew home?

Seriously, if an omnipotent being arrives and you are in a desperate situation, would you act like such a bitch?
She couldn't Q to keep his word. If he was lying, then not only would they NOT get home, now she'd have an omnipotent kid to look after who'd most likely destroy them all in a childish temper tantrum.
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Old July 22 2013, 12:21 AM   #22
Guy Gardener
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Re: Worst example of Voyager ruining an opportunity to return home

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
@Guy

The Ferengi were exploiting the entire population for personal gain by lying to them and manipulating their religion. Stopping them is the same as seeing somebody robbed on the street and stopping the robber.
The Prime Directive is a Non Interference policy that gets tapped for pre warp and post warp cultures alike.

It doesn't matter what the Ferengi were doing.

Janeway was not allowed to interfere in the ferengi's business just like she wasn't allowed to fracture those aliens religion by extracting their gods, or prove a hokum religion to be real which might prolong their dark age for centuries, because religion is a #### who hates science.

The Ferengi to her face argued the Prime Directive and Janeway was forced to submit to their arguments that she should follow her own laws, release the Ferengi and allow them to go back to manipulating the population down below.

Janeway admitted that the law was on their side.

Rather than saying "fuck the law" and tossing them in a cell, and going home, she felt obliged to beam them back planetside and then trick them into wanting to come with her because she thought that she was smarter than they were (Neelix in costume) and when that failed because she was not smarter than they were, she triggered that worlds apocalypse... I don't know if you've noticed but when ever we in the present on Earth reach some sort of deadline where the world is supposed to end, a few thousand idiots commit suicide and a handful of morons go on a killing spree to make the rapture easier for god, because gods job is hard enough as it is... One of the obvious ideas behind the Prime Directive is to avoid unforeseen consequences... What was more harmful to these people? Being turned into good Ferengi, or surviving the end of days?

As to your example.

1. the robber has mob connections and they kill your entire family to stop you testifying in court.

2. The robber is starving and his family starve to death waiting for "dad" to come back with a wallet.

3. The person being robbed is a billionaire and really doesn't care about the 200 bucks in his wallet.

4. You bean the robber in the nose, feel like a hero, but it turns out it wasn't a robbery at all... It's was a husband and wife roleplaying a sex fantasy.

5. You bean the robber in the nose, feel like a hero, but it turns out it wasn't a robbery at all... You had wandered onto a movie set and the producer sues you for 10 thousand dollars for interrupting filming and "damaging" an actor.

6. The robber kills you.

7. Trying to kill you, stopping you stop the robbery, the robbers bullets spray into the crowd and 4 children you do not know die.

8. You successfully stop the robbery, but you killed the robber in the process and you go to jail for 20 years.

9. You successfully stop the robbery, but you killed the robber in the process and you feel really bad about.

10. You successfully stop the robbery, but you killed the robber in the process and the robbers family sues you in civil court and you lose everything, and there's a lean on your wages for the rest of your life.

...

Janeway is not (only) a person, she is a representation of a foreign government. Everything she does to the Universe reflects on the Federation for the next ten thousand years. Your example is off slightly, since what happened each week on Star Trek was a Government (the federation) imposing, or trying not to impose it's values on other governments, which means for a real world argument comparative to the one you issued, you have to ask about how America is doing dip shit about China's occupation of Tibet... Or how China is doing dip shit about America's Occupation of Iraq... Other than harvesting their fertile oil fields of course.

If Governments disagree there is war.

The Prime Directive stops idiot Captains from starting wars with species they shouldn't too easily.

If Nagus Zek (while he was still in power) found out about what happened, he would have RAPED the Federation for such inviolate persecution of his people and the criminal activities of Janeway and the audacity of this Neelix person to think that he could impersonate the will of the Nagus.

Goods and services taxes would go up by 3 percent, and suddenly there's replicator rationing Federation wide.

"Unforeseen consequences".
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Old July 22 2013, 01:13 AM   #23
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Worst example of Voyager ruining an opportunity to return home

False Profits is worse than Threshold.
Other than the hearty laugh I got out of Janeway-Paris salamander babies, I can't imagine Threshold being worse.

OTOH, wouldn't leaving the salamander babies amount to abandonment?
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Old July 22 2013, 08:17 PM   #24
Turd Ferguson
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Re: Worst example of Voyager ruining an opportunity to return home

Actually, besides using Q, Threshold is the worst example. Paris sat in sickbay for at least a day before turning into a salamander fully. The Doctor knew the radiation dosage to make Paris human again. Just warp 10 to the Alpha Quadrant and cure everybody before they start evolving.
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Old July 22 2013, 08:23 PM   #25
MacLeod
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Re: Worst example of Voyager ruining an opportunity to return home

You do realise you've just ended the show.
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Old July 22 2013, 08:42 PM   #26
Silvercrest
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Re: Worst example of Voyager ruining an opportunity to return home

I always thought "Unimatrix Zero" was the worst. At the end, they've got allies in a liberated Borg sphere with transwarp capability. Maybe the show could contrive some reason why the sphere couldn't take them home-- but they didn't even ask! They completely forgot!
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Old July 23 2013, 02:17 AM   #27
The Overlord
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Re: Worst example of Voyager ruining an opportunity to return home

It seems like there were several things the Voyager could have done to prevent the Ferengi from escaping, they could have put them in hand cuffs, put extra guards at the Shuttle Bay, disable their shuttle, lock their shuttle, have competent security people take the Ferengi to the Brig. It really looks bad for the Voyager that the Ferengi were able to escape so easily and reclaim their shuttle.
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Old July 23 2013, 02:56 AM   #28
Guy Gardener
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Re: Worst example of Voyager ruining an opportunity to return home

Wouldn't they have made it home in Hope and Fear if they hadn't gone back for Seven?

Voyager had to back track all the way to the rim of Borg Space which cancels out most of Kes' Gift she gave them in Gift.

If I was Admiral Janeway and knew that Seven was going to die anyway half way to Earth, it would have been a clear fix to jump in at that moment and kill Seven before Janeway had to go out of her way 60 thousand light years to rescue her bionic ass.

(Or sidesteping Seven's capture by Arturis is perhaps a less blood thirsty option.)
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Old July 26 2013, 04:29 AM   #29
Bob Karo
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Re: Worst example of Voyager ruining an opportunity to return home

Using a timed explosive or leaving behind a security team to blow up the caretaker array? Just letting Kazon have it?
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Old July 26 2013, 05:41 AM   #30
Guy Gardener
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Re: Worst example of Voyager ruining an opportunity to return home

Legally according to Tuvok she was supposed to let them have the array.

So that suggestion Bob is %200 the opposite of out side the box thinking.
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