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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old July 11 2013, 03:54 AM   #211
JanewayRulz!
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Excellent show, without the dreaded "reset" button in the end.

Loved the way Janeway & B'Elanna worked together to solve the communication problem between the ships.

Was shocked when Harry was sucked out of the ship and B'Elanna couldn't save him.

Swooned when "perfect Voyager" Janeway told her staff to "Rig another one!" when they brought Kes' magic arm band to let her transverse the rift.

Hit the arm on the sofa when we saw the dead Kes & Samantha Wildman in sickbay and CHEERED when young Harry came in to save the day!

Smiled when "damaged Voyager" Janeway put her arm around her newest crewmember and reassured him that "We're Star Fleet officers, weird is part of the job."
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Old July 11 2013, 05:13 AM   #212
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
Excellent show, without the dreaded "reset" button in the end.
Without the reset button? How do you figure? No one died, those who did were replaced from the double ship. The bad guys died, and all the damage to the ship was repaired by next episode. That's text book reset button to me.
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Old July 11 2013, 05:23 AM   #213
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

R. Star wrote: View Post
JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
Excellent show, without the dreaded "reset" button in the end.
Without the reset button? How do you figure? No one died, those who did were replaced from the double ship. The bad guys died, and all the damage to the ship was repaired by next episode. That's text book reset button to me.
I have to agree... total reset. But it was an amazing episode anyway.
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Old July 18 2013, 10:24 AM   #214
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

It was extremely "reset" heavy, but a great episode before that. It's a shame as once again we're into territory that would have been interesting to see repercussions of again. Voyager limping along trying to repair would have been great.

Meanwhile I got back from Holiday last night and got through three episodes.

Innocence
Pretty average and standard episode. Moving on.

The Thaw
Wow, it looks a lot like a TOS episode in the computer. Bloke from Spinal Tap was excellent. Loved Janeway's solution here, and it's an interesting set-up for the next episode.

Tuvix
And let the debate begin. An excellent episode, with a rather difficult decision for the Captain towards the end. I like it that if the solution was available right at the start it wouldn't have been a problem, even Tuvix would have jumped at the transporter. Instead, Janeway has to wrestle with the decision of is it right to kill one person to save two. I honestly don't know, though as the other Vulcan put it, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

The actor portraying Tuvix did a fantastic job, and he really did come off as a more likeable amalgamation of the two characters. If he had failed on that front the entire episode would have fallen apart.

What we're all really ignoring though is one Ensign Harry Kim's giant dereliction of duty. The transporters are playing up, so he fixes them, only instead of testing them he just beams the Away Team back up instead. All that plant nonsense is clearly Kim covering his own arse.
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Old July 18 2013, 04:33 PM   #215
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Innocence... pretty boring. I'd dissect just how dumb it is they become kids as they get older... but that would require me caring enough about the episode to do so. Not to mention it morbidly amuses me for some reason the thought of one of those alien women giving birth to a shriveled old person the size of themselves. Well amuses me more than an episode of Vulcan babysitting.

The Thaw... one of Voyager's better episodes. Unlike most clown villain spinoffs this one doesn't make you just want to groan and fight over who can change the channel first, but this guy actually felt menacing and threatening. Not to mention chopping the log to scare Kim was hilarious, and it's oddly fitting that Janeway manages to conquer fear by being more menacing.

Tuvix... well I'll keep this short as I've spouted off on long tangents on the latest hundred plus page Tuvix thread. First, to get it out of the way, I believe Janeway is guilty of murder for that one. But to the episode itself and not the moral implications of it, the acting was well done and it presented a compelling scenario. You really could like the Tuvix character even if he looks like he came out of a blender and the scene where he's begging for his life on the bridge, desperate for anyone to help him but finding only silence is wonderful in it's sheer morbidness.
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Old July 19 2013, 09:10 AM   #216
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Oh she absolutely committed murder, but at the extent of saving two lives. Her face and reaction to the reappearance of the Tuvok and Neelix say it all, that decision was not easy and it weighs heavy. I think that's why it's an episode that stays with us so much, Janeway has to make a hard decision. If she didn't kill Tuvix, she was condemning two other people to oblivion.
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Old July 19 2013, 09:35 AM   #217
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

NightJim wrote: View Post
If she didn't kill Tuvix, she was condemning two other people to oblivion.
Is she actually "killing" him or condemning him to oblivion as Tuvok and Neelix were by their smushing together?
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Old July 19 2013, 12:52 PM   #218
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Now you've said it, I guess it's semantics. Whoever doesn't survive is effectively dead. It may be a very different death, but their consciousness is gone, therefore dead.
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Old July 19 2013, 01:13 PM   #219
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

If a time traveler exterminates your ancestor have they killed you?
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Old July 19 2013, 02:06 PM   #220
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

^
In Trek it's a 50/50 chance really depending on the needs of the plot.
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Old July 19 2013, 02:19 PM   #221
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

I'd say yes. I believe a movie was made about it. The Termin...something
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Old July 19 2013, 06:34 PM   #222
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

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I'd say yes. I believe a movie was made about it. The Termin...something
But Trek is woefully inconsistent with time travel and consequences thereof.

Children of Time says if you remove the past event the present consequences are gone.

Star Trek First Contact manages to have the Enterprise survive the alteration of the past even when Earth is handwave assimilated.

Then since this is Voyager episodes like Shattered and Relativity, without giving details since this is a first time thread, manage to have insane amounts of time travel and interactions with both past and future versions of themselves, without any consequences thereof.
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Old July 20 2013, 01:19 AM   #223
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Someone tries to do this in Continuum, exterminate someone's existence by killing an ancestor, and it doesn't work. We're left with three possibilities as to why. Either the timeline has shifted just by there being time travelers walking the street so the future you affect is not the future you came from OR someone wasn't honest about parentage and the person killed was not your blood ancestor OR it just doesn't work for reasons unknown.

Yeah people do what they like with time travel.. one day stepping on a butterfly wipes out a planet, the next day you can have tea with Hitler and lock him in a closet and nada happens.
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Old July 20 2013, 10:56 AM   #224
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

I prefer the idea that you're out of the timestream so you can't be effected by any changes. So if the time traveller goes back to kill my grandfather (to kill me in a roundabout way), I'm erased, but if I follow then I don't get erased. Like Marty in Back to the Future keeping his memories intact (though him fading in the first film seems to totally go against that).
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Old July 20 2013, 10:18 PM   #225
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
Excellent show, without the dreaded "reset" button in the end.
Without the reset button? How do you figure? No one died, those who did were replaced from the double ship. The bad guys died, and all the damage to the ship was repaired by next episode. That's text book reset button to me.
I have to agree... total reset. But it was an amazing episode anyway.
To-may-to... to-mah-toe

To me it's not a reset because Samantha knows HER baby died. Yes, the child in her arms is a miracle, a gift but she's "not" Sam's own. From this day forward, Samantha is a stepmom, the surviving twin who's left to raise the daughter of her heart, not the daughter SHE birthed.

Just like B'elanna knows that while this Harry looks like her buddy and has most of his memories, THIS Harry doesn't remember running down that corridor with her to seal the breach, he doesn't remember hanging from the ladder as a desperate B'Elanna stretched out her hand to save him. He doesn't remember B'Elanna's face when she failed him and Harry was sucked out into space.

This Harry, however, DOES remember successfully using the proton pulses to begin to heal their ship until HIS captain told them to stop. He DOES remember his ship being attacked and his friends dying. He does remember his Janeway ordering him to save himself and Ensign Wildman's baby. And despite doing as he was ordered, despite crossing from his dying ship onto this badly damaged Voyager, despite greeting his best friends in the process... he KNOWS this isn't right. THIS isn't his ship, isn't his Captain, isn't his B'Elanna.

And yet... it is, and they are.

Weird... eh?

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