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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate The Persistence of Memory.
Outstanding 71 56.35%
Above Average 41 32.54%
Average 12 9.52%
Below Average 1 0.79%
Poor 1 0.79%
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 19 2013, 01:49 PM   #436
tomswift2002
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Sci wrote: View Post
tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
Just starting to read this book. Seems like the timeline's been pushed forward to 2389 or 2390 in this book, since since page 8 mentions that its been nearly 25 years since "Measure Of A Man" in 2365.
No, Cold Equations takes place in 2384. That's just an erroneous statement.

Seems like there are quite a few "erroneous statements" within the first four chapters of the book that place its date anywhere within 2385-2390.
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Old July 19 2013, 03:08 PM   #437
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
Just starting to read this book. Seems like the timeline's been pushed forward to 2389 or 2390 in this book, since since page 8 mentions that its been nearly 25 years since "Measure Of A Man" in 2365.
No, Cold Equations takes place in 2384. That's just an erroneous statement.
Seems like there are quite a few "erroneous statements" within the first four chapters of the book that place its date anywhere within 2385-2390.
And it's just awful when characters make errors like that. Real people never get their dates wrong and always speak with mathematical precision!

Cold Equations is set in 2384.
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Old July 19 2013, 06:58 PM   #438
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, so I apologize if I'm repeating someone else. But I saw that all three of the Cold Equations books are on sale right now for .99 each for Kindle.

I was going to post this in its own thread but wasn't sure if there might be a rule against threads that could conceivably be seen as advertising for one website, etc. Just thought anyone who was interested in the series might wanna take advantage of the discounted price.
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Old July 19 2013, 09:22 PM   #439
F. King Daniel
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
I'm trying to remember, aside from B-4, Lore, Data, Juliana Tanner and Lal, when did we ever meet three other Soong androids, since there's a scene where there are six holders, but I only recall those five androids, and with Data dead and Juliana Tanner elsewhere, why did the Daystrom Institute need three additional containers?
I think they're from Immortal Coil, possibly based on something Julianna said in her TNG episode. Three unfinished prototypes, without humanoid features and which never achieved sentience. In my brain, they're B-1 through B-3.
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Old July 19 2013, 09:32 PM   #440
Christopher
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
In my brain, they're B-1 through B-3.
I think that's missing the point of the line in NEM about Soong's whimsical sense of names. "B-4" is supposed to be a pun on "before," because he's a prototype.

Besides, what would the "B" stand for if it were just a dry classification number with no pun involved?
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Old July 19 2013, 09:51 PM   #441
Kertrats47
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Christopher wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
In my brain, they're B-1 through B-3.
I think that's missing the point of the line in NEM about Soong's whimsical sense of names. "B-4" is supposed to be a pun on "before," because he's a prototype.

Besides, what would the "B" stand for if it were just a dry classification number with no pun involved?
Not disagreeing with you whatsoever, but possibly "Beta"? As in beta testing?
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Old July 19 2013, 10:06 PM   #442
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

But beta testing comes after alpha testing -- that's why it's called that. It's when software that's been through the full development process and had all its features locked is released to the public for usability testing and bug detection. The beta testing for Data would've been after he was built and was having his early interactions with the colonists. You wouldn't have used "Beta" in that sense to refer to an earlier, separate piece of software, let alone hardware.
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Old July 19 2013, 11:42 PM   #443
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Christopher wrote: View Post
But beta testing comes after alpha testing -- that's why it's called that. It's when software that's been through the full development process and had all its features locked is released to the public for usability testing and bug detection. The beta testing for Data would've been after he was built and was having his early interactions with the colonists. You wouldn't have used "Beta" in that sense to refer to an earlier, separate piece of software, let alone hardware.
Possibly, but maybe the "alpha" testing was testing the software and cognitive programs in a virtual or computer-based environment, and the beta testing was testing it in conjunction with actual hardware, with the intention for it to be the finished product before deciding to go back to the drawing board with Lore and Data. Not saying that's what I think it stands for, but I believe the question was along the lines of what might it stand for. Just postulating.
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Old July 19 2013, 11:45 PM   #444
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

^That's just not what the words mean. Alpha and beta are stages in the testing of the same piece of software. Each different program or device would have its own separate alpha and beta testing stages.
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Old July 19 2013, 11:58 PM   #445
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Christopher wrote: View Post
^That's just not what the words mean. Alpha and beta are stages in the testing of the same piece of software. Each different program or device would have its own separate alpha and beta testing stages.
Wouldn't it be the same piece of software whether it's in the computer environment or after having then been transferred into the B-4 body? But fair enough. Just throwing out ideas here.
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Old July 20 2013, 02:51 AM   #446
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

B-4's brain is clearly a radically different piece of software -- and hardware -- from Lore's or Data's. It's more like version 1.0 versus version 5.0 and 6.0. (Personally I believe B-4 was the first, crudest prototype, and the three unnamed ones came subsequently.)
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Old July 20 2013, 02:32 PM   #447
F. King Daniel
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Christopher wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
In my brain, they're B-1 through B-3.
I think that's missing the point of the line in NEM about Soong's whimsical sense of names. "B-4" is supposed to be a pun on "before," because he's a prototype.

Besides, what would the "B" stand for if it were just a dry classification number with no pun involved?
I got the pun, but for there to be three earlier prototypes... it just fits so well. Maybe B-4 being the first working proof-of-concept was a happy coincidence.

Perhaps the A's were a positronic brains which never functioned at all, Soong went back to the drawing board and came up with the B-series.
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Old July 20 2013, 03:08 PM   #448
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

I still think there's far too huge a gap in function and sophistication between B-4 and Lore for B-4 to be the immediately preceding prototype.

Also, there's the timeline question. Julianna was with Soong from the prototypes through Lore through Data... but she only knew about three prototypes, not four. If B-4 wasn't one of those three prototypes, then the only logical conclusion is that he came before them, before Juliana joined Soong.
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Old July 22 2013, 07:15 PM   #449
tomswift2002
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

I think the "A" and "B" series make sense, since from the different is odes that talk about Soong I always got the feeling that Soong had made some androids that had failed and he was "laughed at" by his other colleagues into hiding, because his earlier prototypes failed completely, after building up a big expectation for it. So B-4, Lore and Data could all be part of his redesigned series. Plus I believe that in a few episodes it was mentioned that Data had an R type positron if brain (I think it was mentioned in "Time's Arrow"), so who knows if Soong created a body for each type of brain. There could've been brains made but no bodies.

But with the large leap from B-4 to Lore, look at the large leap from Data to Juliana (and I don't just mean Soong created a female android), but after Data Soong added the ability for Juliana to scan as human, and operate as a full human.
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Old July 22 2013, 07:37 PM   #450
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Christopher wrote: View Post
I still think there's far too huge a gap in function and sophistication between B-4 and Lore for B-4 to be the immediately preceding prototype.
It depends if you are looking at it as being steady progress between models or correcting a fault with an otherwise viable design. Incremental change vs a big jump to full functionality...
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