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Old July 19 2013, 01:22 PM   #16
Darkwing
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Re: TOS from the perspective of Enterprise

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Darkwing wrote: View Post
Braga specifically said the FC events caused an alternate timeline, but tried to play it both ways: It changed the timeline, but it's still the timeline leading to TOS and TNG+.
Have you got a link to that? I hear it a LOT, but no-one can ever show me the interview it's supposedly from.
That's so long ago, I'm not sure where I'd have that anymore.


I can't agree. As a new timeline, ENT is okay, although the Xindi are a problem, in that they didn't exist in the prime timeline.
They weren't featured in a prior episode or movie, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
Not in this case. You don't control that big a chunk of space that close to Terra without some mention. The Xindi were too big and too close to disappear.

We've seen hundreds of species once and then they vanish in Trek (especially in the movies), and the universe is so big I have no trouble with a few previously unheard of aliens cropping up.
Which is why I don't include the Denobulans in the previous complaint. They didn't make an enormous footprint all over Earth space and then >poof!<.


ENT also did a nice job of putting faces to races previously only mentioned, like the Axanar.
Never saw that - not having tv, I stopped making the effort to catch the show in the 2nd season. I really liked Northstar, and hated SG1's anti-slavery ep, but much of the rest of the show just didn't work for me - and the "prime directive" ep was purely offensive.

Technology-wise, they also established the TOS helm/nav station, blue TOS phasers and energy shields are all Andorian designs. The round screens and computer graphics from the TOS movies were Vulcan (as are the mandarin collars of TNG). The blinking coloured squares of TOS are from Earth (see how they go from a couple in the first season to full-on TOS by the end) as is the general layout of future starships.
None of which makes sense to me. Technical architecture is more about the compatibility of software. The color of a beam weapon, the kind of collar worn, etc, are piddly, and reinvented by everybody, so nobody really gets credit. Though none of that matters if ENT is a new timeline or a reboot.
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Old July 19 2013, 07:47 PM   #17
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: TOS from the perspective of Enterprise

Not in this case. You don't control that big a
chunk of space that close to Terra without some mention. The Xindi were too big and too close to disappear.
The Xindi weren't big, and they didn't control any kind of empire - they were pretty much on par with Earth of the 2150's, having a couple of colony worlds and trading with their neighbours. They were nomads without a homeworld, and barely able to work together long enough to pose a threat to Earth. Random pawns turned against Earth as part of a war through time.

Earth went on to found the Federation and become a big deal. The Xindi didn't. In a future timeline Archer was shown, the Xindi were part of the Federation in the 26th century.
Never saw that - not having tv, I stopped making the effort to catch the show in the 2nd season
The Axanar were in one of the early first season episodes - they were the aliens on the derelict ship, strung up in the ceiling. It freaked Hoshi out. A few other "name only" TOS aliens were seen as well.

Continuity issues and retcons aside, you can't call Enterprise a reboot without ignoring the Mirror Universe two parter (which crossed over TOS and ENT) or the (admittedly awful) final episode, played out on the Enterprise-D's holodeck just prior to and between early scenes of "The Pegasus". Whatever Braga said early on, he either changed his mind, was overruled or was bullshitting (like his more recent outlandish claim that Future Guy was Archer)
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Old July 20 2013, 06:40 PM   #18
Darkwing
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Re: TOS from the perspective of Enterprise

The Xindi would be akin to a history of Pennsylvania which does not mention New York, until a later volume in which some colonists sneak over the wall around the state and bring it down, and negotiate a truce. So, yes, too big and too close.

Had they been in a Yonada-like ark passing through, i'd grant your argument. As for the Mirror universe argument, consider the interphase as a nexus between the original verse and reboot verse which spawns a third. Besides, a clean reboot is a much better idea than a mucky half-reboot, half-prequel. It completely avoids continuity issues.
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Old July 21 2013, 11:26 AM   #19
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: TOS from the perspective of Enterprise

But how often has the period immediately preceeding the Romulan War been discussed in other Treks? As far as I'm aware, it's zero.

I could make the exact same argument in reverse, and complain that because TNG never showed us a Tellarite despite several episodes set among the core worlds of the Federation, and since we saw Andorians (like Tellarites, another founding member of the Federation) on only two occasions (and in both they looked so very different to TOS and the early movies), I could make a case that TNG is an alternate reality to TOS.
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Old July 21 2013, 07:15 PM   #20
Albertese
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Re: TOS from the perspective of Enterprise

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
...

I could make the exact same argument in reverse, and complain that because TNG never showed us a Tellarite despite several episodes set among the core worlds of the Federation, and since we saw Andorians (like Tellarites, another founding member of the Federation) on only two occasions (and in both they looked so very different to TOS and the early movies), I could make a case that TNG is an alternate reality to TOS.
There are numerous persons who actually feel this way exactly. I myself am kinda okay with this idea.

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Old July 22 2013, 09:28 PM   #21
Darkwing
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Re: TOS from the perspective of Enterprise

The difference is this: TNG was written and set after TOS, and failed to mention Tellarites, which is one kind of writer's mistake. ENT was a prequel, and included too much that would never be seen in TOS, since it was already done. But Nu-trek assumes ENT in it's background, so it's easy to just say "Timeline 1: TOS and TNG+", and "Timeline 2: ENT & nu-Trek", and just assume Riker has access to a holodeck program based on scans of the Guardian of Forever.
But I really don't have a problem with the idea that TOS is timeline 1, TNG+ is timeline 2, and ENT/nu-Trek is timeline 3. I just wish they'd get a good writer for plot and stop going for kewl factor.
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Old July 25 2013, 12:44 PM   #22
Herkimer Jitty
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Re: TOS from the perspective of Enterprise

Darkwing wrote: View Post
just assume Riker has access to a holodeck program based on scans of the Guardian of Forever.
What.
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Old July 25 2013, 02:49 PM   #23
JJohnson
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Re: TOS from the perspective of Enterprise

From the perspective of Enterprise, pushing that forward a century, do you think the original series Enterprise would have such huge corridors, rooms, etc? Or more like the motion picture in proportion?
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Old July 25 2013, 03:24 PM   #24
Albertese
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Re: TOS from the perspective of Enterprise

JJohnson wrote: View Post
From the perspective of Enterprise, pushing that forward a century, do you think the original series Enterprise would have such huge corridors, rooms, etc? Or more like the motion picture in proportion?
If you look at the actual blueprints of the various sets, you'll see that all of the series share pretty similar proportions. In fact many of the later series sets were just redressed versions of the sets built for TMP, which themselves were meant to be similarly sized as the TOS sets.

I wonder if the minimalist nature of the TOS visual language just makes it seem bigger as there isn't so much crap everywhere to lend a sense of texture...? Also, the later sets have more and more ceilings, this also might make the TOS sets seem bigger than they really are.

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