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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old July 19 2013, 02:22 AM   #31
CaptainBearclaw
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Wait, someone dislikes TOS?! Who is this person?!!!? WHERE IS HE?!?! LET ME KILL HIM!!!!!!
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Old July 19 2013, 04:20 AM   #32
J.T.B.
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Warped9 wrote: View Post
One could make a case for "The Trouble With Tribbles," "A Peice Of The Action" and "I, Mudd" deliberately veering into camp, particularly the latter two episodes. But two or three episodes deliberately humourous episodes out of seventy-nine does not make the series predominantly camp as a whole.
People seem to use the word "camp" a lot and I'm not sure I understand how they mean it. Traditionally it meant an exaggerated and conscious theatricality or outrageousness, and especially that which referred to or hinted at gay culture.

The episodes mentioned above were just comedy, or at least comedic, episodes. It was quite common at the time for dramatic or action shows to have occasional comedic episodes. Gunsmoke had them, as did The Big Valley, Wild Wild West, The Man from U.N.C.L.E. and so on. Bonanza was practically half comedy in its later seasons.
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Old July 19 2013, 04:34 AM   #33
Warped9
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
One could make a case for "The Trouble With Tribbles," "A Peice Of The Action" and "I, Mudd" deliberately veering into camp, particularly the latter two episodes. But two or three episodes deliberately humourous episodes out of seventy-nine does not make the series predominantly camp as a whole.
People seem to use the word "camp" a lot and I'm not sure I understand how they mean it. Traditionally it meant an exaggerated and conscious theatricality or outrageousness, and especially that which referred to or hinted at gay culture.

The episodes mentioned above were just comedy, or at least comedic, episodes. It was quite common at the time for dramatic or action shows to have occasional comedic episodes. Gunsmoke had them, as did The Big Valley, Wild Wild West, The Man from U.N.C.L.E. and so on. Bonanza was practically half comedy in its later seasons.
In "A Piece Of The Action" the Iotians as 1920's gangsters were a spoof, an exaggeration of a stereotype perpetuated in 1930's films. And in "I, Mudd" we see the androids act in an exaggerated manner of how such things might be seen in B movie sci-fi. And note that in "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" and "Requiem For Methuselah" androids are not depicted in such an exaggerated way.
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Old July 19 2013, 06:05 AM   #34
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Including naturally-occurring humor within drama is just good character-based storytelling, whether it is TREK or STREETS OF SAN FRANCISCO or HAVE GUN. Part of what makes the TOS characters so lovable is that they aren't just about business, they seem to have lives outside of the plot of the week, and they react in a human rather than programmed way to situations, and that means you don't always just have stock replies, and sometimes wit comes out of that, just as it does in life.

One reason I found the ModernTrek/Berman era so unappealing (outside of DS9) was because these people didn't have that life to them (except guest stars and occasionally Riker.) Y'know, like just having one time when they get yet ANOTHER emergency panic alert from Starfleet and Riker could say, 'Someone's probably lost a tribble.'
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Old July 19 2013, 05:40 PM   #35
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
One could make a case for "The Trouble With Tribbles," "A Peice Of The Action" and "I, Mudd" deliberately veering into camp, particularly the latter two episodes. But two or three episodes deliberately humourous episodes out of seventy-nine does not make the series predominantly camp as a whole.
People seem to use the word "camp" a lot and I'm not sure I understand how they mean it.
Basically, anything that isn't "dark", with characters wallowing in constant "angst" and "Daddy issues" is dismissed as "camp". "Fun", an characters who act like actual people is not allowed.

This view is incorrect. These stories have their place, and I can enjoy them on occassion, but now pretty much EVERYTHING has become that. And it has become tedious.
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Old July 19 2013, 05:44 PM   #36
CaptainBearclaw
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

^You're right, where did this mentality start anyway. Why does what was once escapist fiction have to keep getting pounded with depressing issues? And why is it we dismiss anything not following this mentality as CAMP?!
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Old July 19 2013, 06:13 PM   #37
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
I didn't think TOS was significantly disliked, I've seen plenty of support for it from this community ever since I joined and constant discussions, artwork, representation (nearly all positive) for it all along.

The volume of artwork, fanfiction, fan productions, prop work and even things as simple as the amount avatars here still show a strong support and love of the show.

If anything, as Daniel mentioned, TNG is a lot more frequently ridiculed these days. I grew up on it but I still prefer TOS to it.
I grew up on the original series before adding Next Generation to my viewing. I remember seeing Kirk and all at 5 AM every Saturday morning - Wolf in the Fold, Doomsday Machine, City on the Edge of Forever...all the classics. I understood the fx were limited, which is why I thoroughly loved the remastering for replacing and updating most of the fx (planets, ship shots being the biggest upgrades. Transporters still looked 2d and like 2 shots pasted together) to make the show more watchable overall. TNG-Remastered is very much missing the boat in not doing any updates at all (no new entering orbit, no new establishing shots, no updated transporter fx, no new ships to replace the 10K Excelsior, Miranda, Oberth ships, etc.).

I can understand and appreciate the original series for what it was, and it was a product of the 60s, but it showed a positive vision of the future, unlike so many shows today (Continuum, BSG, etc). That was a great part of it, that we could overcome all the problems of today and come out better for it.
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Old July 19 2013, 06:17 PM   #38
YJAGG
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

I love TOS I gre up watching the reruns for 42 years, are they all winners, nope , but it's Trek
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Old July 19 2013, 06:21 PM   #39
JJohnson
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

RandyS wrote: View Post
J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
One could make a case for "The Trouble With Tribbles," "A Peice Of The Action" and "I, Mudd" deliberately veering into camp, particularly the latter two episodes. But two or three episodes deliberately humourous episodes out of seventy-nine does not make the series predominantly camp as a whole.
People seem to use the word "camp" a lot and I'm not sure I understand how they mean it.
Basically, anything that isn't "dark", with characters wallowing in constant "angst" and "Daddy issues" is dismissed as "camp". "Fun", an characters who act like actual people is not allowed.

This view is incorrect. These stories have their place, and I can enjoy them on occassion, but now pretty much EVERYTHING has become that. And it has become tedious.
I can agree with you. Personally, I'm getting or have already gotten very burned out on dark, angsty, conspiracy, angry, snarky, pessimistic TV. Endless CSI/NCIS/Law&Order spinoffs, Twilight, Continuum, Orphan Black, X-Files, Battlestar Galactica '04, ST: Enterprise in a few spots, and dozens of others. Why can't we have optimistic TV again? The Original Series characters weren't angry or full of odd personal problems just to give them faux depth. McCoy and Spock bantered back and forth, but you could tell they were friends, ditto the rest of the senior staff. They could quip and joke while getting their mission done. In comparison, I would prefer a new Trek series more in the mold of the original series over Voyager, DS9, TNG, or Enterprise in the overall mood of the series.
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Old July 19 2013, 06:35 PM   #40
Warped9
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

I tend to agree that many interpret something with a generally positive aspect to it to be campy. If they really need a dismissive word then perhaps what they want is "corny" which means something much different than campy.

TOS could do all kinds of stories yet throughout it was generally positive and idealistic, things that are seen as "campy" today. And note that a lot of film and television SF tends to be edgier, somewhat darker and cautionary about the future.

Stargate: SG-1 was a lot like TOS in terms of its storytelling and by contemporary standards it, too, might be labeled as campy, but it (like TOS) was certainly nothing of the kind. Same with Babylon 5.
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Old July 19 2013, 08:58 PM   #41
J.T.B.
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Warped9 wrote: View Post
In "A Piece Of The Action" the Iotians as 1920's gangsters were a spoof, an exaggeration of a stereotype perpetuated in 1930's films. And in "I, Mudd" we see the androids act in an exaggerated manner of how such things might be seen in B movie sci-fi. And note that in "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" and "Requiem For Methuselah" androids are not depicted in such an exaggerated way.
Those are standard comedic devices, why not just identify them as comedic? The only thing I see that might qualify as camp are the over-the-top performances the crew puts on for the androids in "I, Mudd."

RandyS wrote: View Post
Basically, anything that isn't "dark", with characters wallowing in constant "angst" and "Daddy issues" is dismissed as "camp". "Fun", an characters who act like actual people is not allowed.

This view is incorrect. These stories have their place, and I can enjoy them on occassion, but now pretty much EVERYTHING has become that. And it has become tedious.
The use of the word is also incorrect, as far as the dictionaries I have access to.

Going back to the OP: All shows age, and all will look dated to younger viewers to some extent. TOS happens to be the eldest Trek. If a viewer doesn't have enough to identify with or connect to, they won't like a show that's so different in look, style, pacing etc. from what they're used to. With that in mind, TOS is quite remarkably ahead of its contemporaries in the amount of attention it generates, going on 50 years later.
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Old July 19 2013, 10:10 PM   #42
Galileo7
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Noname Given wrote: View Post
bbailey861 wrote: View Post
I love TOS. I grew up in the 60's, so I don't have a hangup about the 'dated' aspect of the show. The themes are just as relevant today as they were then. More so, perhaps - just turn on the news channel.
^^^
Why type a response when this one fits me to a tee?
Agree absolutely, but for me I grew up in the '70s with the reruns Mondays through Fridays. A great decade in my boyhood to experience it with TMP December 7, 1979.
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Old July 19 2013, 11:49 PM   #43
marksound
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Shows from that era aren't understood by much of the current generation spoiled by HD big screen TVs, CGI effects, 3D movies, video games, smart phones, and high speed internet. These things are recent developments in technology, but try explaining that to kids these days.

They just won't believe ya.
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Old July 19 2013, 11:59 PM   #44
The Dead Mixer
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

FWIW, I think it helps to have been around at a time when we didn't call the show TOS...when it simply was Star Trek. Those who grew up on the later shows that built upon its success (including various non-Trek sci fi shows that were only put on the air because of the ratings of TNG in its prime) aren't as appreciative of the qualities of the original, by and large.
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Old July 20 2013, 12:06 AM   #45
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

It doesn't bother me when people dislike Star Trek, but it does irk me when people disrespect it.
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