RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 137,851
Posts: 5,328,193
Members: 24,552
Currently online: 709
Newest member: SpammetySpam

TrekToday headlines

Cubify Star Trek 3DMe Mini Figurines
By: T'Bonz on Jul 11

Latest Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Jul 10

Seven of Nine Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

Pegg The Prankster
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

More Trek Stars Join Unbelievable!!!!!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

Star Trek #35 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

New ThinkGeek Trek Apparel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Star Trek Movie Prop Auction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Drexler: NX Engineering Room Construction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

New Trek Home Fashions
By: T'Bonz on Jul 4


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 10 2013, 09:36 PM   #76
Captaindemotion
Vice Admiral
 
Captaindemotion's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

^I would find that hard to reconcile with The End of Time. The Tenth Doctor didn't seem to show any particular personal guilt or remorse at Rassilon's presence.
__________________
Hodor!!!!!!!
Captaindemotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10 2013, 10:41 PM   #77
Workbee
Commander
 
Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

This is true. However, the Doctor had his hands full with either stopping the Master and ending the Time Lords a 2nd time -- it isn't too much of a stretch that he wouldn't have much opportunity to react or espouse on the nature of Rassilon. Plus, the Doctor already knew about Rassilon. It was the (possible) return of the Time Lords, not the sight of Rassilon, that was the shock.

In reality it is likely they hadn't conceived of the Hurt Doctor concept (or if they had, they hadn't fleshed out the details). Plus, the Doctor had earlier made such a point of refusing Wilf's gun "I never would", the dramatic impetus was to show how corrupt and dangerous the Time Lords were to make the Doctor take arms when he wouldn't do so to stop the Master and save Earth. Introducing guilt over bringing back Rassilon would have worked against the scene.

I am really excited to see how this actually plays out in November. It is interesting to speculate. This makes me remember all the theories that came out after Back to the Future II to figure out how Marty would get back to save Doc.
Workbee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11 2013, 02:51 AM   #78
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

I think we might be overthinking things a little. Maybe it's just as simple as Hurt's Doctor simply worked with the Time Lords willingly when the Time War got serious. Even though it was clear to him the Time Lords were douchebags and were committing horrible atrocities supposedly for the greater good he went along with it anyway and even joining in and doing a few terrible things himself. In fact, he may even have known stopping the Time Lords would end the war sooner, but rationalized to himself the Daleks would still need to be defeated and continued working with the Time Lords, believing this to be the only way. It wouldn't have been until he regenerated and became Eccleston that the Doctor learned the error of his ways, and set out to end the war by neutralizing both the Time Lords and Daleks. Feeling shamed that such an idea didn't come to him sooner, the Doctor decides the Hurt incarnation to not truly be the Doctor since be behaved in such a non-Doctor manner.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11 2013, 07:56 AM   #79
SeerSGB
Admiral
 
SeerSGB's Avatar
 
Location: Tennessee
Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Maybe using the "The Moment" wasn't the big crime. Maybe he did something that unleashed something worse on the stragglers of the Time War--the peace of a gun. Hell, maybe he killed ever Tardis but his own.
__________________
- SeerSGB -
Good men don't need rules, The Doctor (A Good Man Goes To War)
SeerSGB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11 2013, 08:20 PM   #80
Praetor
Vice Admiral
 
Praetor's Avatar
 
Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
I think we might be overthinking things a little. Maybe it's just as simple as Hurt's Doctor simply worked with the Time Lords willingly when the Time War got serious. Even though it was clear to him the Time Lords were douchebags and were committing horrible atrocities supposedly for the greater good he went along with it anyway and even joining in and doing a few terrible things himself. In fact, he may even have known stopping the Time Lords would end the war sooner, but rationalized to himself the Daleks would still need to be defeated and continued working with the Time Lords, believing this to be the only way. It wouldn't have been until he regenerated and became Eccleston that the Doctor learned the error of his ways, and set out to end the war by neutralizing both the Time Lords and Daleks. Feeling shamed that such an idea didn't come to him sooner, the Doctor decides the Hurt incarnation to not truly be the Doctor since be behaved in such a non-Doctor manner.
This. Moffatt's not exactly subtle in these matters. I also think it makes sense that it would have been Eccleston's Ninth who had to set it right. Eccleston's performance dripped of thinly-masked regret and guilt.
__________________
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
Praetor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11 2013, 09:13 PM   #81
Emperor-Tiberius
Fleet Captain
 
Emperor-Tiberius's Avatar
 
Location: Kavala, Greece
Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

http://sfdebris.com/videos/doctorwho/dwjh.asp
__________________
"Spock...?" Kirk said, whispering.
"I am... most pleased to see again, Captain" Spock formally replied.
McCoy shook his head in disgust. "Oh, for crying out loud, Spock. Its been eighty years!"
"Seventy eight point four years, Doctor."

The Holy Three meet again, in The Return
Emperor-Tiberius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11 2013, 09:48 PM   #82
Tom
Rear Admiral
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Location: In your Mind!
Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Some pretty good speculation there. Got to hand it to Moffat for creating this interesting puzzle, let us hope the pay off does not let us down.
__________________
AP - Star Trek: Renegades - Starring Walter Koenig, Tim Russ, Robert Picardo, Sean Young & many more - Coming 2014 - www.startrekrenegades.com
https://www.facebook.com/STRtheSeries
Tom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 19 2013, 01:38 PM   #83
Emperor-Tiberius
Fleet Captain
 
Emperor-Tiberius's Avatar
 
Location: Kavala, Greece
Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Honestly, I think it'd be kind of ingenius if the Shalka adventures are actually weived (spell) into this, somehow, and thus make these stories more "important" than they were, originally.

That said, I really do wonder if John Hurt's Doctor is really a written-in replacement for Eccleston's Ninth Doctor, like SFDebris mentioned. I was hoping that Moffat had the Hurt Doctor in place before Eccleston's Ninth was to appear or not, and that it was gonna Three Doctors (9,10,11) plus Hurt. The reason I wonder, is because I fear it may result to, perhaps, a sloppy rewrite, or something.
__________________
"Spock...?" Kirk said, whispering.
"I am... most pleased to see again, Captain" Spock formally replied.
McCoy shook his head in disgust. "Oh, for crying out loud, Spock. Its been eighty years!"
"Seventy eight point four years, Doctor."

The Holy Three meet again, in The Return
Emperor-Tiberius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 19 2013, 01:41 PM   #84
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Emperor-Tiberius wrote: View Post
Honestly, I think it'd be kind of ingenius if the Shalka adventures are actually weived (spell) into this, somehow, and thus make these stories more "important" than they were, originally.

That said, I really do wonder if John Hurt's Doctor is really a written-in replacement for Eccleston's Ninth Doctor, like SFDebris mentioned. I was hoping that Moffat had the Hurt Doctor in place before Eccleston's Ninth was to appear or not, and that it was gonna Three Doctors (9,10,11) plus Hurt. The reason I wonder, is because I fear it may result to, perhaps, a sloppy rewrite, or something.
AS I mention earlier in the thread, based on the way it was set up in The Name of the Doctor it seems the John Hurt Doctor would have been in this even if Eccleston had agreed.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 19 2013, 01:43 PM   #85
DalekJim
Fleet Captain
 
DalekJim's Avatar
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Tom wrote: View Post
I really don't think Hurt's doctor's crime is ending the time war because:

- Both the Daleks and the Time Lords were 'bad' and thus are not getting any sympathy from fans when they died.
Huh!? Most of the Time Lords would have been normal guys. Don't judge a society worthy of death because of it's government, man.
DalekJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 19 2013, 02:02 PM   #86
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Most Time Lords seen throughout the classic era are douchebags, and there's quite a few who are considered renegades. IMO, the Time Lords are more bad guys than they are good guys.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 19 2013, 02:04 PM   #87
DalekJim
Fleet Captain
 
DalekJim's Avatar
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

We pretty much only ever see the government though. Imagine if people judged the US worthy of being nuked merely on Obama and his cronies.

Obviously The Doctor did what he had to do, but I'd find it weird if he felt zero sympathy for most inhabitants of Gallifrey. Normal people like Andred, or whoever. It was a more morally ambiguous, Hiroshima-esque scenario and not morally the same as wiping out the Daleks, who are essentially just a virus.
DalekJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 19 2013, 02:28 PM   #88
Sindatur
Rear Admiral
 
Sindatur's Avatar
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Emperor-Tiberius wrote: View Post
Honestly, I think it'd be kind of ingenius if the Shalka adventures are actually weived (spell) into this, somehow, and thus make these stories more "important" than they were, originally.

That said, I really do wonder if John Hurt's Doctor is really a written-in replacement for Eccleston's Ninth Doctor, like SFDebris mentioned. I was hoping that Moffat had the Hurt Doctor in place before Eccleston's Ninth was to appear or not, and that it was gonna Three Doctors (9,10,11) plus Hurt. The reason I wonder, is because I fear it may result to, perhaps, a sloppy rewrite, or something.
AS I mention earlier in the thread, based on the way it was set up in The Name of the Doctor it seems the John Hurt Doctor would have been in this even if Eccleston had agreed.
Yea, the disdain Eleven held for HurtDoctor would be written completely different if it was Eccelston instead, so, it really doesn't make sense that drastic a change was made to the script(s) by Eccelston turning it down. Far more likely Eccelston was merely meant to be one of 3 Doctors, and his lines were merely transferred to Tennant and Smith
__________________
One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am

Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?
Sindatur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 19 2013, 02:35 PM   #89
Yminale
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Democratically Liberated America
Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

I actually like the idea that Hurt's Doctor is pre-Hartnell. It could explain the whole "not in the name of The Doctor" line because he wasn't called the Doctor.
__________________
This Space for Rent
Yminale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 19 2013, 02:49 PM   #90
Yminale
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Democratically Liberated America
Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Obviously The Doctor did what he had to do, but I'd find it weird if he felt zero sympathy for most inhabitants of Gallifrey.
I always felt that secretly, he hated the Time Lords (all of them, not just the ones on the High Council). Yeah he saved them but he saves everybody if he can. That's why the Master sees him as a kindred spirit. That's why he likes humans, we are the exact opposite of Time Lords.

Also by the end of the Time War, how many Time Lords are left. It seems in the "End of Time" that only the High Council survived.
__________________
This Space for Rent
Yminale is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:23 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.