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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old July 11 2013, 10:28 PM   #16
bullethead
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

anh165 wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post

In the hands of a proper command crew, with orders coming from the real Starfleet (not some criminal conspiracy called Section 31), this ship could be a force for good. And a bloody good one at that.
Umm, isn't that what the Enterprise is for?
Yeah, but the given nuKirk's command incompetence, Starfleet is better off sending the Enterprise deliberately into harm's way as a distraction and loading up Dreadnoughts with those long range torpedoes to wipe out Klingon infrastructure and military fortifications.
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Old July 12 2013, 12:20 PM   #17
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

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^ That too. But with war with the Klingons looming, Starfleet will need all the power it can get its hands on. Assuming the blueprints for the Vengeance-class ships still exist, Starfleet would be foolish not to use them.
I am not sure why there would necessarily be a full blown war with the Klingons. It seems only Admiral Marcus wanted one or was so paranoid it would happen that he resorted to building the Vengeance and using Khan.

The Federation are very active in diplomatic channels - having gunships like the Vengeance hanging around outside the klingon border will undermine any peaceful credentials.

The Enterprise is a much better representation of who the Federation are and is capable of defending itself without resembling something that is looking for trouble.
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Old July 15 2013, 07:33 PM   #18
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

Do we know the Vengeance would be the only one of her kind? For all we know, the class is in full-blown production already, with USS Dreadnought undergoing clandestine trials for the third year, and USS Treading of Jeweled Thrones under Sandaled Feet having her first major maintenance layover.

Kirk seems ignorant of the program, but he has been out in deep space already, and has been concentrating on getting back there for five years lately. The idea that the Dreadnought program would be secret from the rest of Starfleet is sort of discredited by Marcus openly portraying that model on his desk, and by security on the dockyards not being particularly strict.

Possibly the only exceptional thing about the Vengeance here was her mode of deployment: rather than being launched on a Starfleet mission with a Starfleet crew, she was confiscated by Marcus and a mercenary team for a private sortie, and Marcus fully intended to return her afterwards.

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Old July 16 2013, 01:45 AM   #19
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

Looked and sounded like the Vengeance was built as a black-ops one-off version of a design already in service...?
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Old July 16 2013, 02:12 AM   #20
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

Maybe Vengeance started as an off the shelf Dreadnought (maybe even belong to a older class of ship to start with) and Marcus appropriated her for use a "new technologies" testbed. Funding for the ship doesn't have be hidden, the model on his desk is no big deal, and it fits with Kirk thinking they can outrun the Vengeance at warp.
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Old July 16 2013, 02:14 AM   #21
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

DEWLine wrote: View Post
Looked and sounded like the Vengeance was built as a black-ops one-off version of a design already in service...?
As "Contact" taught us: why build just one, when you can build two for twice the price?
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Old July 16 2013, 04:05 AM   #22
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

The design had certain similarities with the anti-time future Enterprise from "All Good Things" as well I thought.
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Old July 16 2013, 05:49 PM   #23
Roboturner913
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

Kevman7987 wrote: View Post
I think the thing we can all agree on is the fact that the USS Vengeance from Star Trek Into Darkness was awesome looking.
Sorry, we can't all agree on that.

I thought it was ugly and fanboy-ish and hope we never see anything like it ever again.
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Old July 17 2013, 07:27 PM   #24
Mage
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Starfleet would be foolish not to use this design. It may have been built and launched under circumstances which were not ideal, but the design itself is out there. It's useable. It could have any number of uses, in or out of wartime.

If there are no other ships of the class NOW, there should be soon. Get more ships built and do it fast. The next time war comes, Starfleet will be glad it did.

In the hands of a proper command crew, with orders coming from the real Starfleet (not some criminal conspiracy called Section 31), this ship could be a force for good. And a bloody good one at that.


Politics.

With the exception of a few nutjob admirals, Starfleet and the UFP don't want a war with the Klingons. With anyone really. So, here's a ship designed by a rogue admiral, packed with BFG's and a warpdrive that can run circles around the Enterprise, one of the newest ships in the fleet. A ship made for war.
How the heck would the Klingons react when you actually put that ship into active production?
It would be something along the lines of the Cuban missile crisis. The Klingons would start arming themselves more, things would escalate pretty quickly, and before you know it.... BOOM!!

Starfleet has always been about steering away from war, but being prepared for it if need be. The Vengeance is neither, it's steering towards war, imo.
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Old July 19 2013, 05:46 AM   #25
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

Roboturner913 wrote: View Post
Kevman7987 wrote: View Post
I think the thing we can all agree on is the fact that the USS Vengeance from Star Trek Into Darkness was awesome looking.
Sorry, we can't all agree on that.

I thought it was ugly and fanboy-ish and hope we never see anything like it ever again.

I'm not a huge fan of the design either - but I think it would actually look a lot better with an extra 3rd nacelle. I don't know why, but I think, at the least, it would make the ship look less...generic. Less like a Connie on steroids with Transformer armor...

Unfortunately I don't have good Photoshop or rendering skills (actually I don't have *any*)..but I'd love to see someone else tackle the design of a 3-nacelled Big V...
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Old July 19 2013, 05:54 AM   #26
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ That too. But with war with the Klingons looming, Starfleet will need all the power it can get its hands on. Assuming the blueprints for the Vengeance-class ships still exist, Starfleet would be foolish not to use them.
That's exactly how 31 would be thinking, too.

That there won't be a negotiated or reasoned way out, just peace through superior firepower.
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Old July 19 2013, 06:10 AM   #27
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

Mage wrote: View Post
With the exception of a few nutjob admirals, Starfleet and the UFP don't want a war with the Klingons. With anyone really. So, here's a ship designed by a rogue admiral, packed with BFG's and a warpdrive that can run circles around the Enterprise, one of the newest ships in the fleet. A ship made for war.
How the heck would the Klingons react when you actually put that ship into active production?
There's no reason the Klingons would ever need to see that ship - unless war has already broken out. Once that happens, THEN you deploy Vengeance-class ships to the front lines. But until that time, keep them well within the Federation's borders, ideally within a secure facility, where the Klingons won't even know they're there. Keep them there until war already breaks out. Only then do you let them out.
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Old July 19 2013, 11:06 AM   #28
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

bryce wrote: View Post
Roboturner913 wrote: View Post
Kevman7987 wrote: View Post
I think the thing we can all agree on is the fact that the USS Vengeance from Star Trek Into Darkness was awesome looking.
Sorry, we can't all agree on that.

I thought it was ugly and fanboy-ish and hope we never see anything like it ever again.

I'm not a huge fan of the design either - but I think it would actually look a lot better with an extra 3rd nacelle. I don't know why, but I think, at the least, it would make the ship look less...generic. Less like a Connie on steroids with Transformer armor...

Unfortunately I don't have good Photoshop or rendering skills (actually I don't have *any*)..but I'd love to see someone else tackle the design of a 3-nacelled Big V...
CLICK!
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Old July 19 2013, 04:49 PM   #29
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Mage wrote: View Post
With the exception of a few nutjob admirals, Starfleet and the UFP don't want a war with the Klingons. With anyone really. So, here's a ship designed by a rogue admiral, packed with BFG's and a warpdrive that can run circles around the Enterprise, one of the newest ships in the fleet. A ship made for war.
How the heck would the Klingons react when you actually put that ship into active production?
There's no reason the Klingons would ever need to see that ship - unless war has already broken out. Once that happens, THEN you deploy Vengeance-class ships to the front lines. But until that time, keep them well within the Federation's borders, ideally within a secure facility, where the Klingons won't even know they're there. Keep them there until war already breaks out. Only then do you let them out.
The starship equivalent of a pack of attack dogs? I like it.
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Old July 19 2013, 08:24 PM   #30
Mage
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Mage wrote: View Post
With the exception of a few nutjob admirals, Starfleet and the UFP don't want a war with the Klingons. With anyone really. So, here's a ship designed by a rogue admiral, packed with BFG's and a warpdrive that can run circles around the Enterprise, one of the newest ships in the fleet. A ship made for war.
How the heck would the Klingons react when you actually put that ship into active production?
There's no reason the Klingons would ever need to see that ship - unless war has already broken out. Once that happens, THEN you deploy Vengeance-class ships to the front lines. But until that time, keep them well within the Federation's borders, ideally within a secure facility, where the Klingons won't even know they're there. Keep them there until war already breaks out. Only then do you let them out.
Secrets can come out, through spies or just a stupid mistake. Hell, in a way that's what happened to the Vengeance. It was supposed to remain secret.....then kinda crashed into one of the biggest cities on Earth. So yeah, would Starfleet take that risk? And before you answer yes, Marcus wasn't acting under Starfleet's orders.
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