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Old July 16 2013, 11:38 PM   #376
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

^Again, some Alfreds have been older than others. As I said, post-Crisis versions have usually assumed that Alfred was Thomas Wayne's butler and raised Bruce from childhood, if not infancy; but as that link I gave above shows, originally it was Alfred's father who was Thomas's butler, and Alfred only came to work for Bruce when the latter was an adult, after he'd already become Batman.

But this Alfred strikes me as a man in his healthy fifties. And since we're in the early years of Batman's career, Bruce is probably in his upper twenties.
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Old July 17 2013, 02:55 AM   #377
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

I have to admit at first I was closer to how Kirk55555 felt about the villains & sidekick on this, but after talking about it here, and thinking about it more, I've become a lot more excited about getting to see new characters. We've already gotten plenty of shows/games/movies/novels with Robin, Joker, Two-Face, Penguin, Riddler, Batgirl, ect. I think it's about time we let some new characters get some time in the spotlight.
And it's also worth pointing out that in a lot of the interviews, they've said they're starting with these lesser known characters, I don't think they've ruled out the more familiar characters appearing later.
And besides, if they did do the more familiar characters, they'll probably put they're own spin on them that Kirk55555 and people like him will still hate. At least with them doing the new characters, people aren't as likely to be upset about them getting the character "wrong".
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Old July 17 2013, 03:47 AM   #378
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

JD wrote: View Post
We've already gotten plenty of shows/games/movies/novels with Robin, Joker, Two-Face, Penguin, Riddler, Batgirl, ect. I think it's about time we let some new characters get some time in the spotlight.
Right. I think people forget (heck, even I forgot until now) that Batman:TAS was itself the screen debut of a number of notable characters from Batman comics: Harvey Bullock, Lucius Fox, Leslie Thompkins, Zatanna, Poison Ivy, Ra's al Ghul, Talia, Killer Croc, Bane, Man-Bat, Hugo Strange, Maxie Zeus, the Ventriloquist, Rupert Thorne, Tony Zucco, Professor Milo, and even Two-Face (though Harvey Dent had appeared in the '89 Burton movie). It was also the first screen appearance of Arkham Asylum, though the institution had been name-dropped in an episode of The Flash. Not to mention that it created several characters who'd later be added to the comics, such as Harley Quinn, Renee Montoya, and Lock-Up, plus various original characters all its own like Summer Gleeson, Veronica Vreeland, HARDAC, Roland Daggett, Kyodai Ken, Baby Doll, etc. So if B:TAS, everyone's most admired Batman series, could achieve success by featuring so many comics characters never before adapted to TV and creating so many of its own, why can't BTB do the same?


And besides, if they did do the more familiar characters, they'll probably put they're own spin on them that Kirk55555 and people like him will still hate. At least with them doing the new characters, people aren't as likely to be upset about them getting the character "wrong".
Good point.
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Old July 17 2013, 09:34 AM   #379
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Yeah, well then that is exactly who the Alfred in BtB is - Bruce's butler. But you're still not satisfied.
Because he's not the butler; he's the bodyguard.

Christopher wrote: View Post
I reject the question, because it's unfair to judge an entire show based on a single clip. It's bad decision-making to assess a data point in isolation without understanding its context.
The point is that if you didn't know he was Alfred, you wouldn't know he was Alfred. If he just showed up, without spoilers, you'd be wondering who the big bruiser is.

davejames wrote: View Post
The only issue I had with this Alfred is he seemed a little young. He almost seemed more like an older brother or old Army buddy of Bruce's than a father or mentor figure.
That's part of what makes it pandering. They don't want Alfred because he's an older man who does chores around the house-- he must be re-imagined as a younger man of action!
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Old July 17 2013, 09:42 AM   #380
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post
The only issue I had with this Alfred is he seemed a little young. He almost seemed more like an older brother or old Army buddy of Bruce's than a father or mentor figure.
That's part of what makes it pandering. They don't want Alfred because he's an older man who does chores around the house-- he must be re-imagined as a younger man of action!
A legitimate artistic choice.
The fact that it doesn't conform to the image of Alfred you have from some of the comics is irrelevant. So what if it doesn't conform? You're acting as if this choice....what's the cliche? 'raped your childhood'.
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Old July 17 2013, 02:41 PM   #381
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Because he's not the butler; he's the bodyguard.
He's both. Remember the line in the hostage scene? When Alfred started to take charge, Simon Stagg looked at him and said, "Who are you?" and he replied, "I'm the butler."

Again, it's much the same as in Johns and Frank's Earth One graphic novel. There, Alfred is a former British intelligence agent that Thomas brings in as a bodyguard for young Bruce, a role he's reluctant to adopt at first, and when Thomas and Martha are killed and he learns that he was appointed Bruce's legal guardian, he thinks it over for a bit and then goes into the grieving boy and introduces himself as "your butler."



The point is that if you didn't know he was Alfred, you wouldn't know he was Alfred. If he just showed up, without spoilers, you'd be wondering who the big bruiser is.
Which is why I'm smart enough to wait for more information so that I can find out. There's nothing wrong with being made to wonder. It inspires curiosity, and curiosity is good.


That's part of what makes it pandering. They don't want Alfred because he's an older man who does chores around the house-- he must be re-imagined as a younger man of action!
Obviously you're forgetting many of Alfred's awesome action moments from comics and television. My favorite is in the '66 series' "Flop Goes the Joker." The climax of the episode has the Joker breaking into Wayne Manor to avenge himself on Bruce for some perceived slight. Alfred confronts the Joker, gets into a swordfight with him, and wins, sending the Joker retreating into the study, where he stumbles upon the Batpoles (which are mercifully unlabeled because Alfred's just repainted them), takes them as an escape tunnel, and slides down. Whereupon Alfred uses the emergency lift controls to keep the Joker from reaching the bottom, and sends the Joker sliding up and down the poles repeatedly. By the time Batman and Robin arrive, the Joker is begging for mercy. Alfred defeated the worst arch-criminal on Earth singlehandedly in five minutes, without the Dynamic Duo needing to do a thing.

In short, if you want Alfred to be some doddering old weakling useless for anything but housework, then you don't know a thing about Alfred. There's more verbiage devoted to him in TV Tropes's Battle Butler entry than to any other single character (even Hayate the Combat Butler!).

And as I've already pointed out twice, the show is set in the early years of Batman's career. Everyone is therefore younger.
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Old July 17 2013, 03:56 PM   #382
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

As long as I get a curvy 'toon babe in some type of form fitting attire, I'll be happy, and it looks like we will.

Yeah, I'm an incorrigible horn-dog.

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old July 17 2013, 07:54 PM   #383
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Christopher wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Well, it just didn't feel very Batman to me.
It felt to me like a very solid and interesting interpretation of Batman. I mean, the way he handled that first fight scene -- knowing exactly what the hood was going to do next, intimidating him by telling him that he knew, popping a dislocated shoulder back in and barely letting it slow him down -- all classic Batman.
Batman can do all those things but so can almost any random masked vigilante. It was the most batman like thing the whole episode, but one scene doesn't make it a batman show.

Christopher wrote: View Post
The "villains drawn from all over" just feel like the show being obscure for the sake of being different.
Again, I'm bewildered by the assumption that being different is not exactly the right thing to do. Why redo what's already been done?
Then why use the license if you're not going to take advantage of it? Make your own superhero cartoon free of licenses if you hate the character and his villains. If you're making a batman show, it needs to have Batman, his rogue's gallery (the real one, not the legion of poorly thought out obscure villains), and other familiar characters.


Christopher wrote: View Post
Honestly, the only thing probably keeping them from that is the TV rating and being on Cartoon network. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they would do that if they could.
I have no idea why you'd assume that.
Well, they're doing everything they possibly can to be the exact opposite of everything Batman, so making him The Punisher in a batsuit seems like its something they'd really enjoy doing.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Also, you're right about the other shows, but the point is BTB has given him a partner, a stupid one that makes seeing the real Batman sidekicks unlikely, which is just another reason for me to hate the choice. I'd rather have solo Batman over batman and Katana.
You're entitled not to watch the show if you don't want to, but I don't know why you'd think Katana is "stupid" just because she's not what you've seen before. If anything, trying new things is a mark of intelligence, not stupidity. You don't have to agree with other people's creative choices, but it's frankly very childish to insult their intelligence just because you would've made a different choice.

And I'd remind you that just a few weeks ago you were insisting that The Batman was the stupidest Batman show you'd ever seen, but you opened your mind enough to consider evidence to the contrary and now you've reconsidered, at least somewhat.
Trying new things is overrated. Teen Titans Go! is trying new things, and its the worst DC animated show I've ever seen. Just because you change something doesn't mean its an improvement over the old stuff.

As for The Batman, the first 2 seasons were pretty bad They pulled it together eventually and it became a good show, and thats an accomplishment. I enjoyed season 4 a lot, and I just ordered season 5 (and I'll probably get Season 3 eventually). I just hope BTB doesn't start going downhill in season one, since I doubt it will get a few seasons to help the show get better like The Batman did.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, we have to agree to disagree with that. Since I think the idea of Alfred physically protecting Batman to be idiotic in general (it could work if Batman is injured, the batcave is under attack, and Alfred throws himself in front of an enemy, but thats for a show with a real, normal alfred, not Alfred with Hulk Hogan's body) I don't think it will lead to anything interesting.
But that's exactly what's interesting here -- the incongruity between Alfred's (and now Katana's) nominal, public role as Bruce Wayne's bodyguard and the underlying truth that nobody on the planet needs a bodyguard less -- yet practically nobody puts himself more constantly in danger. So that puts Alfred in a frustrating position, because he feels a duty to protect someone who's beyond his ability to protect. Good drama comes from the conflict between a character's goals and their circumstances. That's why I think that what Watson and Murakami are going for here is an examination of Alfred's struggle to define his role in Bruce's life -- paralleling their exploration of Bruce's own struggle with his dual identity.

I would call attention to the character of Diggle on Arrow -- nominally Oliver Queen's bodyguard, but ending up being the Arrow's sidekick, and having to balance his duty to serve the Arrow's mission with his duty and friendship toward Oliver. It works there, and it can work here.
Yeah, but Diggle was not a long established Butler of Oliver Queen in the comics with his own perosnality and way of doing things that has been consistent between the 80's and present day. I get what they're doing with "Hulk" Alfred, and I'm not saying that kind of story can't be interesting. It just can't be done with Alfred, which is why I'm assuming the real Alfred isn't being used, just a random muscle bound former military guy with his name. I just wish they hadn't decided to drag Katan down with Alfred in this show. They atleast could have chosen a character I didn't like to be his partner. Any random person would have made as much sense as his partner as Katana, so maybe they should have just gone with someone picked at random. If Vibe or Azrael were his partner, it would just be stupid, and not involve a character I like being used in one of the stupidest ways possibly.

Christopher wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
This show's big problem is that it seems like they just dislike normal batman stuff, so they'll do anything but normal Batman things.
That's nonsense. As I've told you, Glen Murakami has been working on DC/Warner Bros.' Batman productions for two decades now, since he was a storyboard artist on B:TAS. And the show's executive producer Sam Register has been the executive in charge of nearly every Batman-related WB production since The Batman. So they have plenty of experience working with what you'd call "normal Batman things." It's absurd to think they'd dislike them.

But that's just it. Those things have been done, and done well. Why compete with those past successes by trying to do the same things over again? It's not that they dislike those things, it's that they're satisfied with what's been done with them in the past, and rather than just imitate them, they're trying to do something new that hopefully will be just as good.
Well, maybe Murakami and Register are just tired of doing batman, and instead of letting people who actually want to make a Batman show do it, they decided to just make it Batman only in name so that they could do a show about a new hero they weren't burned out on. It definately doesn't feel like anyone who knows or likes batman is working on this show. Character burn out would explain why they refuse to add any normal Batman stuff, because they're tired after being involved with him for so long. Its just a theory, but it seems to fit. Why else would you make a Batman tv show that is almost unrecogniseable? Its not a money thing imposed on them, because I doubt DC or cartoon network are super excited about the merchandising potential of Magpie or Professor Pyg. I don't know who exactly came up with the idea to make a batman show that is barely a batman show at all, but I really wish they weren't allowed to make tv shows.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Besides, what defines "normal" for you? What's been on TV or film before? A lot of the villains we'll be seeing have been major recurring foes in the comics over the course of years; they just haven't been picked up by any screen adaptation yet, and many of them are arguably overdue for an appearance. Pyg and Toad are among the most prominent, defining villains of Grant Morrison's lengthy tenure on Batman. Anyone who's been reading Batman comics over the past 5-6 years would consider them an entirely "normal" presence in a Batman story.
Normal is the real batman. The guy with the loyal butler (who has no fighting skills) some partners, and a rogue's gallery of actually interesting characters. Sometimes having a lesser known character is ok (you don't want to use the big guns every week) but you should be seeing characters like Joker, Mr. Freze, Poison Ivy, Penguin, Man-Bat, Clayface, The ventriloquist, etc. atleast a couple times a season each (maybe one episode devoted to the slightly lesser known guys like Ventriloquist, but cameos a few times a season for most villains) and fill some of the left over episodes with obscure guys (and episodes that aren't centered on a villain, B:TAS had a lot of good ones like that). If you're going to have Pyg, or Magpie, its either as a group with other villains, a one off episode, or in connection to another story.

I started reading Batman regularly around the time of Final Crisis (I had a read a good amount before then, but thats when it became regular). So, I read it from basically Dick Grayson becoming batman to the new 52 reboot. I also read Batman & Robin. So, I read a good chunck of Morrison's run (or atleast the later stuff). I saw Pyg once (in Batman & Robin), Mr. Toad never. Pyg was the worst pre-reboot Bat villain i've ever read. He randomly mutilated people for no reason, and wore a pig mask while doing it. He was a generic psycho, nothing more. Morrison's Bat writing was starting to devolve around that point anyway (what he did to Jason Todd should be a punishable offense).

Maybe he wrote Pyg better before his appearances in batman & Robin, but when I was reading, Pyg was just a lame villain written by a writer whose Batman writing was fluctuating between good and godawful almost at random. I liked some of his run (like batman & Robin, not counting the Jason Todd stuff) but I'd never call Morrison more than an average batman writer once his really good and really bad Batman stuff balances each other out. He was a very bad event writer (Final Crisis is still the most confusing comic I've read) but thats not connected to Batman. Still, looking on comicvine.com, Pyg has been in 27 comics, which doesn't really make him a "normal" presense.

JD wrote: View Post
I have to admit at first I was closer to how Kirk55555 felt about the villains & sidekick on this, but after talking about it here, and thinking about it more, I've become a lot more excited about getting to see new characters. We've already gotten plenty of shows/games/movies/novels with Robin, Joker, Two-Face, Penguin, Riddler, Batgirl, ect. I think it's about time we let some new characters get some time in the spotlight.
And it's also worth pointing out that in a lot of the interviews, they've said they're starting with these lesser known characters, I don't think they've ruled out the more familiar characters appearing later.
And besides, if they did do the more familiar characters, they'll probably put they're own spin on them that Kirk55555 and people like him will still hate. At least with them doing the new characters, people aren't as likely to be upset about them getting the character "wrong".

Atleast with actual batman villains they'd have a chance at making them interesting and having good villains. I'm not against all change. Heck, The Batman had some interesting takes on classic villains that were different. They aren't all improvements (making Mr. Freeze a generic jewel theif really confuses me) and I while still prefer the classic B:TAS versions characters like Riddler and Clayface were interesting, and fairly different than the B:TAS versions. Batman has had a lot of foes, and there is a reason some are well known and popular and some are extremely obscure. The obscure ones just didn't work. I wouldn't want to see Ten Eyed Man used seriously, but he's actually more likely to be seen on this show than Robin, and thats just lame.

Last edited by kirk55555; July 17 2013 at 08:08 PM.
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Old July 17 2013, 08:14 PM   #384
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
They atleast could have chosen a character I didn't like to be his partner


You're probably not going to like BtB, kiddo, so don't bother watching it.

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Old July 17 2013, 08:42 PM   #385
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Batman can do all those things but so can almost any random masked vigilante.
Not like Batman can. This felt like Batman to me.


Then why use the license if you're not going to take advantage of it? Make your own superhero cartoon free of licenses if you hate the character and his villains.
Again, that's a ridiculous straw man. Of course they don't "hate" any of that. They love Batman; they just want to try something new with him. Just like B:TAS did -- presenting Batman in a way he'd never been seen onscreen before, featuring many villains and allies who'd never, ever been seen onscreen before, and making big stars out of third-rate joke villains like Clayface and Mr. Freeze. If we'd been posting on Usenet or whatever in 1992, the week after the series premiered, you'd probably be telling me how much Bruce Timm and Eric Radomski must hate Batman.


If you're making a batman show, it needs to have Batman, his rogue's gallery (the real one, not the legion of poorly thought out obscure villains), and other familiar characters.
One more time: Before B:TAS, no one outside the comics audience had ever seen Two-Face, Poison Ivy, Ra's al Ghul, Talia, Killer Croc, the Ventriloquist, Rupert Thorne, etc. The pilot episode of the series featured Man-Bat, of all characters.


Well, they're doing everything they possibly can to be the exact opposite of everything Batman, so making him The Punisher in a batsuit seems like its something they'd really enjoy doing.
Again, I have no idea how you think you can jump to these conclusions after seeing only 20 minutes of content. You're not even judging the show I watched. You're judging some fantasy construct that only exists in your own mind. We're not even conversing in the same universe of discourse.


Trying new things is overrated.
Yeah, B:TAS made a horrible mistake introducing all those new characters and applying innovative designs and animation techniques. That was a total disaster and everyone hated it. They should've just made another season of Super Friends.



Christopher wrote: View Post
Besides, what defines "normal" for you? What's been on TV or film before? A lot of the villains we'll be seeing have been major recurring foes in the comics over the course of years; they just haven't been picked up by any screen adaptation yet, and many of them are arguably overdue for an appearance. Pyg and Toad are among the most prominent, defining villains of Grant Morrison's lengthy tenure on Batman. Anyone who's been reading Batman comics over the past 5-6 years would consider them an entirely "normal" presence in a Batman story.
Normal is the real batman.
That's a completely unresponsive answer, because it's been established that "the real Batman" over the decades has been many very different and contradictory things. You're not even trying to defend your position intelligently -- you're just locking your mind shut and refusing to listen to anything that goes against your prejudices.


The guy with the loyal butler (who has no fighting skills)
Wrong. We've thoroughly established that the comics' Alfred Pennyworth is a combat veteran and retired intelligence officer and field medic. You've had that pointed out to you enough to know that, so you're not just ignorant now, you're intentionally lying.


Sometimes having a lesser known character is ok (you don't want to use the big guns every week) but you should be seeing characters like Joker, Mr. Freze, Poison Ivy, Penguin, Man-Bat, Clayface, The ventriloquist, etc.
Three of which had never been seen on television prior to B:TAS, and at least two of which were minor, third-rate villains before B:TAS made them interesting. You're contradicting yourself.


I'm done trying to get through to you. You've obviously completely closed your mind to anything outside your narrow preconceptions, and that's just sad. But you're only hurting yourself. I'm walking away from this, and I'm going to go on enjoying the show.
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Old July 17 2013, 10:18 PM   #386
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
A legitimate artistic choice.
The fact that it doesn't conform to the image of Alfred you have from some of the comics is irrelevant. So what if it doesn't conform? You're acting as if this choice....what's the cliche? 'raped your childhood'.
That's not a cliche, that's a dodge. Re-imagine Alfred if you want, but don't re-imagine me.

Christopher wrote: View Post
In short, if you want Alfred to be some doddering old weakling useless for anything but housework, then you don't know a thing about Alfred.
And there's the crux of it right there. If Alfred isn't Action Man, with muscles and military experience and other macho credentials to impress the kids, then he's a useless and doddering old weakling. It's possible to write Alfred the butler as an interesting and useful character-- it's just not desirable.
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Old July 17 2013, 10:23 PM   #387
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

We're one episode in, with an Alfred that will be less action-oriented because he's not as mobile now. Why not wait to see where on the feeble-action spectrum BtB's Alfred lands?
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Old July 18 2013, 01:28 AM   #388
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Regardless of wether this post gets replies, I feel the need to explain some of the things I posted.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Then why use the license if you're not going to take advantage of it? Make your own superhero cartoon free of licenses if you hate the character and his villains.
Again, that's a ridiculous straw man. Of course they don't "hate" any of that. They love Batman; they just want to try something new with him. Just like B:TAS did -- presenting Batman in a way he'd never been seen onscreen before, featuring many villains and allies who'd never, ever been seen onscreen before, and making big stars out of third-rate joke villains like Clayface and Mr. Freeze. If we'd been posting on Usenet or whatever in 1992, the week after the series premiered, you'd probably be telling me how much Bruce Timm and Eric Radomski must hate Batman.

One more time: Before B:TAS, no one outside the comics audience had ever seen Two-Face, Poison Ivy, Ra's al Ghul, Talia, Killer Croc, the Ventriloquist, Rupert Thorne, etc. The pilot episode of the series featured Man-Bat, of all characters.

That was B:TAS, not Beware the Batman. B:TAS was special, it had a whole team of awesome people working on it. BTB has a few guys who did some ok stuff at one point. Unless Bruce Timm or Paul Dini are secretly working on it until false identities, what B:TAS did means nothing to this show. I know B:TAS made stars out of less popular villains, I'm not saying it can't be done (although I was not very clear on that in my posts). What I'm saying is that BTB can't do it. If you were to tell me people Timm or Dini were working on an episode of Batman about Pyg or Magpie or Mr. Toad, I'd be excited to see what they do. I'm sure they could make these lame villains awesome.

In the end, this is not B:TAS. It doesn't have the crew or writers who worked on that show and made it great (the big people from the show is what I'm talking about, even if someone who was a storyboard artist on the show at one point or something is working on BTB). B:TAS established, to me, what is normal for Batman. BTB has thrown that out. Its not that the third rate, obscure villains used by BTB can't be good, its that they probably can't be good in the enviroment of BTB.


Christopher wrote: View Post
The guy with the loyal butler (who has no fighting skills)
Wrong. We've thoroughly established that the comics' Alfred Pennyworth is a combat veteran and retired intelligence officer and field medic. You've had that pointed out to you enough to know that, so you're not just ignorant now, you're intentionally lying.
I'm not lying. Alfred has no fighting skills in comics set in the present day. He's a man in his 60s or 70s who uses a shotgun to defend himself. He may have been a good fighter at one point, probably when Bruce was young, but I'd say 30 years (atleast) of not being an active combatant plus advanced age have probably left him with no fighting skills.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Sometimes having a lesser known character is ok (you don't want to use the big guns every week) but you should be seeing characters like Joker, Mr. Freze, Poison Ivy, Penguin, Man-Bat, Clayface, The ventriloquist, etc.
Three of which had never been seen on television prior to B:TAS, and at least two of which were minor, third-rate villains before B:TAS made them interesting. You're contradicting yourself.
B:TAS did make some of them interesting (which I knew), but like I said before, BTB is not B:TAS. Any villain could probably be made interesting, but I don't think the BTB people can do it. Take people who were instrumental in B:TAS, give them a Batman show with a premise like B:TAS and not like Beware the Anti-Batman, and even Ten Eyed Man could be cool. But this show has nothing going for it that makes me think it can make any villain popular that wasn't already.

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
In short, if you want Alfred to be some doddering old weakling useless for anything but housework, then you don't know a thing about Alfred.
And there's the crux of it right there. If Alfred isn't Action Man, with muscles and military experience and other macho credentials to impress the kids, then he's a useless and doddering old weakling. It's possible to write Alfred the butler as an interesting and useful character-- it's just not desirable.

This is what I'm talking about with Alfred. He can be cool and not be an action hero.
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Old July 18 2013, 01:55 AM   #389
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Right because you can judge the quality of a series by it's pilot alone. No series has ever improved after the pilot. And no one other than the people who worked on BTAS can ever tell a good Batman story.
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Old July 18 2013, 02:55 AM   #390
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

^I think this was a terrific pilot. It really sold me on the show's approach and voice, and made me excited about what lies ahead.
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