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Old July 17 2013, 02:20 AM   #1861
Lapis Exilis
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

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Add on top of all that the Dothraki who glorfiy murder, mayhem, and rape and are the readers' introduction to the cultures of Essos, as well as being obviously based on the Mongols, the hordes of which have merged in many a Western mind with modern Islamist fundamentalist "hordes" screaming about the great Western Satan, and I think there's a case to be made for using the term Orientalism.
I think the Dothraki are a pretty accurate depiction of that sort of historical barbarian culture. They weren't men of honour, and were very much in the spirit of glorifying violence and rape. I'm glad GRRM wrote them like that, as it made for a more conflicting reading experience when we see Dany embrace their culture.

It also made it more interesting when Mirri Maz Duur was supposedly outed as anantagonist, when she's clearly much more sympathetic and likeable than Drogo and his Dothraki.
I LOVE the Dothraki - and pretty much all the cultures Martin writes. I'm not really faulting him for some Orientalism or othering sneaking in, especially since it happens largely through the POV of Westerosi characters, which gets him off the hook a bit. Plus I really think he portrays the culture of Westeros as just as completely barbaric as any other culture he presents. The closest he gets to real racial stereotyping is his portrayal of the Summer Islanders, who, again, are largely seen the Westerosi eyes.
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Old July 17 2013, 04:27 AM   #1862
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

We don't really see that much of the Summer Islanders though. We've met a few who run the shipping lanes with their swan-styled ships, and an exiled prince. We know they have the best bows in the known world, they honor sex, they use feathers for decoration and. . . that is about it. Other than the sound of the names of people and places we know of sounding sound very much like they belong in Africa, there isn't much of a racial stereotype there.
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Old July 17 2013, 05:55 AM   #1863
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

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Yeah, not entirely sure why they went with a complete name change for her. She was clearly supposed to replace Jeyne Westerling, unless this was another one of those instances where they didn't want to confuse character names with Jeyne Poole.
They changed the character to save money on having to hire actors for all the other Westerlings and do their whole betrayal subplot.
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Old July 17 2013, 01:22 PM   #1864
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

There's a video of a panel with GRRM on YouTube where he explains it was his suggestion to change Jeyne Westerling's name, after the showrunners decided she was from Volantis. Why they decided she should be from Volantis, is anybody's guess though.
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Old July 17 2013, 02:48 PM   #1865
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

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Elio totally sucks GRRM's cock though.
I would too, if GRRM let me proof read TWoW in return.
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Old July 17 2013, 02:52 PM   #1866
DalekJim
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I don't think wolfing down a fat pink mast would be worth it.
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Old July 17 2013, 04:11 PM   #1867
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

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They changed the character to save money on having to hire actors for all the other Westerlings and do their whole betrayal subplot.
No, they said they changed it because they wanted to tell a different story.
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Old July 17 2013, 05:07 PM   #1868
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

The mystery I most want solved is Varys's motivation. During his conversation with Illyrio in A Game of Thrones, he seems 100% on Dany's side. Later on though, he seems to push Robert in to having her killed.

I know he could have just been putting on a show to remove suspicion from himself, but it's a hell of a risk.
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Old July 17 2013, 05:18 PM   #1869
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

DalekJim wrote: View Post
The mystery I most want solved is Varys's motivation. During his conversation with Illyrio in A Game of Thrones, he seems 100% on Dany's side. Later on though, he seems to push Robert in to having her killed.

I know he could have just been putting on a show to remove suspicion from himself, but it's a hell of a risk.
Since Varys is behind Aegon, I think Dany and Viserys were basically a shell game to keep attention elsewhere, and, in Dany's case, her assassination would prompt Drogo to invade Westeros.
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Old July 17 2013, 05:20 PM   #1870
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Why would Varys want the Dothraki to invade Westeros? They'd have destroyed it.
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Old July 17 2013, 05:29 PM   #1871
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

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Why would Varys want the Dothraki to invade Westeros? They'd have destroyed it.
Varys wants the Westerosi political order destroyed. That's the whole point of the civil war he's instigated. It's all to make it possible for Aegon to reclaim the throne. The Dothraki would have raised hell, but been defeated eventually (depending on how unified Westeros was when they invaded).
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Old July 17 2013, 05:33 PM   #1872
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I understand, but the Dothraki were savages that would have raped, enslaved and killed everybody. It seems way too big a risk, even for Varys. Westerosi culture itself would have taken a huge blow.
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Old July 17 2013, 05:37 PM   #1873
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

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I understand, but the Dothraki were savages that would have raped, enslaved and killed everybody. It seems way too big a risk, even for Varys. Westerosi culture itself would have taken a huge blow.
When you're playing a starting wars that kill of tens or hundreds of thousands, that's an inherently risky business. I don't think inciting a Dothraki invasion is so much more risky than what's been done to the Seven Kingdoms in the inter-faction fighting, particularly in the Riverlands.
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Old July 17 2013, 05:39 PM   #1874
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/07/17/ga...ones-sherlock/

Mark Gatiss cast in Season 4 of Game of Thrones.

Sherlock/Dr Who and Game of Thrones collide!

Mark Gatiss will appear in the fourth season of HBO’s Thrones. The British writer-producer-actor has written Doctor Who novels and episodes of the BBC cult classic, as well as acted on the long-running series (since 2007, he’s credited to three different roles on IMDB). In addition, Gatiss is the co-creator and co-star of another Brit-based favorite, Sherlock, where he plays Holmes’ dryly mysterious brother Mycroft. Now he’s booked on HBO’s fantasy hit next year.

On Thrones he will play …

Well, that’s something we cannot reveal. The Thrones team is keeping Gatiss’ role quiet.
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Old July 17 2013, 05:39 PM   #1875
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Haha, great. He gonna be the Magnar of Thenn? I'm a fan of Gatiss's acting in The League of Gentlemen and Nighty Night. Also big on his Doctor Who novel Nightshade. He's my ideal pick from the likely candidates as showrunner of Who when Moffat leaves.

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When you're playing a starting wars that kill of tens or hundreds of thousands, that's an inherently risky business. I don't think inciting a Dothraki invasion is so much more risky than what's been done to the Seven Kingdoms in the inter-faction fighting, particularly in the Riverlands.

I think it's much easier to manipulate civilised factions as they have similar patterns of engagement. The Dothraki won't be beating drums and planning political strategies like Tywin or Roose, they'd just use feral brute force and tear a chunk out of Westeros.

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