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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old July 16 2013, 04:37 PM   #61
Lance
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

Apologies for strayung off-topic slightly, but it's an interesting question just how much weight his rank carries. He's the ranking (Starfleet) officer of the station yes, but his actual rank was still only Commander until near the end of season 3. Would a visiting Captain be able to pull rank on Sisko? Would, say, Janeway technically outrank him?
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Old July 16 2013, 04:46 PM   #62
Pavonis
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

I don't think a visiting captain could supersede Sisko's authority over station matters. Sisko's superior would be an admiral, not another commanding officer. Positionally, Sisko is equivalent at the rank of commander to any starship captain.

As for his involvement in any search for a missing ship, what could he offer? Use of the Defiant? Who knows when Starfleet would get around to searching for Voyager? How many times were ships out of communications range for weeks or months at a time? Surely Starfleet doesn't get in a tizzy when a ship doesn't report immediately.
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Old July 16 2013, 04:48 PM   #63
Bad Thoughts
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

Lance wrote: View Post
Apologies for strayung off-topic slightly, but it's an interesting question just how much weight his rank carries. He's the ranking (Starfleet) officer of the station yes, but his actual rank was still only Commander until near the end of season 3. Would a visiting Captain be able to pull rank on Sisko? Would, say, Janeway technically outrank him?
I can only speculate that DS9 wasn't considered a significant post, and there was a desire to make it seem that Starfleet was sharing control with Bajorans.

On the other hand, I am surprised Sisko wasn't an admiral by the end of the series. He was heavily involved in strategy and diplomacy during the Dominion War.
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Old July 16 2013, 04:50 PM   #64
Lindley
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
The EMH was last activated prior to Voyager leaving, there's no reason to think his program is periodically updated with current events while he's inactivated.
Back in the 90s it might have made sense that their computers would take time to be updated with that sort of information. Even today, the most common paradigm is sharing information via some central server.

But Voyager was docked at the station which had the most intelligence on the Dominion there was to have. Realistically, their computers should have synced that data automatically so it would be available as needed.
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Old July 16 2013, 04:52 PM   #65
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

I believe the producers considered making Sisko an admiral, but thought it would take him out of the "pantheon of captains". Frankly, I think they should have anyway. They were original enough to start him out at commander, and I think it would've been cool to have a main character reach flag rank in a series rather than a movie or an alternate timeline or fantasy.

Even if Voyager's computers had the latest info on the Dominion (and they had enough info to use Jem'Hadar ships in holodeck simulations) there's no reason to think the Doctor would bother knowing anything about the Dominion. Clearly the Doctor isn't completely tied to the computer, since he interacts with it by terminal rather than some kind of "mental interface".
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Old July 16 2013, 05:02 PM   #66
Hober Mallow
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

Lance wrote: View Post
Apologies for strayung off-topic slightly, but it's an interesting question just how much weight his rank carries. He's the ranking (Starfleet) officer of the station yes, but his actual rank was still only Commander until near the end of season 3. Would a visiting Captain be able to pull rank on Sisko? Would, say, Janeway technically outrank him?
Rank and position aren't the same thing. On TNG, Data had the position of second-officer, third in command of the ship even though Beverly outranked him. Yes, Janeway outranked Sisko, but Sisko was still the commanding officer. It's like when an admiral visits the Enterprise; Picard is still the commanding officer.
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Old July 16 2013, 05:09 PM   #67
Bad Thoughts
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

I believe the producers considered making Sisko an admiral, but thought it would take him out of the "pantheon of captains". Frankly, I think they should have anyway. They were original enough to start him out at commander, and I think it would've been cool to have a main character reach flag rank in a series rather than a movie or an alternate timeline or fantasy.
Maybe "Far Beyond the Stars" was more about Sisko's career trajectory rather than his spiritual journey: a bro' still being held back.
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Old July 16 2013, 05:57 PM   #68
Photon
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

Lindley wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
The EMH was last activated prior to Voyager leaving, there's no reason to think his program is periodically updated with current events while he's inactivated.
Back in the 90s it might have made sense that their computers would take time to be updated with that sort of information. Even today, the most common paradigm is sharing information via some central server.

But Voyager was docked at the station which had the most intelligence on the Dominion there was to have. Realistically, their computers should have synced that data automatically so it would be available as needed.
Thank you. Finally, a voice of reason
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Old July 16 2013, 06:11 PM   #69
Bad Thoughts
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

Photon wrote: View Post
Lindley wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
The EMH was last activated prior to Voyager leaving, there's no reason to think his program is periodically updated with current events while he's inactivated.
Back in the 90s it might have made sense that their computers would take time to be updated with that sort of information. Even today, the most common paradigm is sharing information via some central server.

But Voyager was docked at the station which had the most intelligence on the Dominion there was to have. Realistically, their computers should have synced that data automatically so it would be available as needed.
Thank you. Finally, a voice of reason
I don't think anyone here is arguing that it is more rational that the computer, and hence the Doctor, would not be updated with relevant information, only that is might be understandable. On the other hand, automatic updates of military and diplomatic intelligence (beyond the mere facts of the existence of the Dominion) might not necessarily be wise, expanding the possibility that such intelligence might fall into the hands of a Gul or the 24th C version of Wikileaks.
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Old July 16 2013, 06:14 PM   #70
Pavonis
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

I'd like to point out, again, that the Doctor regularly interacted with the ship's computer in the exact same manner as the rest of the crew, by talking to it or typing at a computer terminal. It was clearly the case that the Doctor did not have internal access to the ship's data, despite being a program himself. It makes sense, then, that no matter how much information on the Dominion was loaded into Voyager's computers that the Doctor might not know any of it.
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Old July 16 2013, 06:16 PM   #71
Bad Thoughts
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

^^^Is the doctor independent of the computer? I can't remember.
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Old July 16 2013, 06:20 PM   #72
Pavonis
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

He must be. If he weren't, then he'd have instant recall of anything in the computer, wouldn't he? He's not just an avatar of the computer, though, he's an independent program, probably with dedicated hardware running the EMH software.
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Old July 16 2013, 06:23 PM   #73
Lindley
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

Pavonis wrote: View Post
I'd like to point out, again, that the Doctor regularly interacted with the ship's computer in the exact same manner as the rest of the crew, by talking to it or typing at a computer terminal.
Now that you mention it, that makes little or no sense.
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Old July 16 2013, 06:28 PM   #74
Pavonis
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

It only makes sense if the Doctor is an independent system from the computer. The EMH systems may have been retrofitted into the Intrepid-class ships, but installed during the building of Nova and Sovereign-class ships. Those EMHs may be different, and have full access to the ship's computers.
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Old July 16 2013, 06:37 PM   #75
Shatna
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

Lindley wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
I'd like to point out, again, that the Doctor regularly interacted with the ship's computer in the exact same manner as the rest of the crew, by talking to it or typing at a computer terminal.
Now that you mention it, that makes little or no sense.
You're right, but of course from a writing and acting standpoint it does make sense. I'm not saying it was the right decision, necessarily, but it might have created more dramatic problems than it solved to have it otherwise.

Oh, and... hiya, Lindley! I believe the last time I saw you was in Bethesda at a get-together. Maybe we should schedule one soon.
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