RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,943
Posts: 5,479,148
Members: 25,056
Currently online: 546
Newest member: JeremiahJT

TrekToday headlines

USS Enterprise Press-Out And Build Manual
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

New QMx USS Reliant Model
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

Star Trek Thirty-Five Years On 35MM: A Retrospective
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

Trek Shirt And Hoodie
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

A Klingon Christmas Carol’s Last Season
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

Attack Wing Wave 10 Expansion Pack
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

New Star Trek Funko Pop! Vinyl Figures
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

QMx Mini Phaser Ornament
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Stewart as Neo-Nazi Skinhead
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Klingon Bloodwine To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 14 2013, 03:40 AM   #61
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: 221B BakerStreet
Re: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen gets pilot order at Fox

JD wrote: View Post
I just read about the modern story on Wikipedia........ and I guess Moore isn't a Harry Potter fan.
If you go by LoEG, he's not a fan of anybody.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14 2013, 09:34 PM   #62
RJDiogenes
Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion
 
RJDiogenes's Avatar
 
Location: RJDiogenes of Boston
Re: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen gets pilot order at Fox

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Some of the characters are immortal or long lived, so they show up in many eras. Mina, Alan and Orlando have been in almost every volume.
True, and that would be fine. I just wouldn't want to see a Sherlock-like update.
That would kind of defeat the purpose, as the concept is literary characters teaming up.
I agree, but they did it with Holmes-- twice.
__________________
Please stop by my Gallery and YouTube Page for a visit. And read Trunkards! And check out my Heroes essays.
RJDiogenes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15 2013, 01:13 AM   #63
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: 221B BakerStreet
Re: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen gets pilot order at Fox

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
True, and that would be fine. I just wouldn't want to see a Sherlock-like update.
That would kind of defeat the purpose, as the concept is literary characters teaming up.
I agree, but they did it with Holmes-- twice.
More than twice, actually. Some of the Rathbones were set in the 1940s. There might he other contemporary set Holmes as well. Of course the concept behind Holmes is that he the world's greatest detective and consults with the police. The concept behind LoEG is literary characters who are contemporaries teaming up.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15 2013, 01:50 AM   #64
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen gets pilot order at Fox

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
More than twice, actually. Some of the Rathbones were set in the 1940s. There might he other contemporary set Holmes as well.
Surprisingly few, really. Most of the stories, at least onscreen, that feature Holmes in the present or future involve the original 19th-century character being frozen, time-warped, or cloned/resurrected, rather than a simple transposition of the character to a modern setting. And it's odd that it hasn't been done more, because as you say, Holmes as originally conceived was a very modern character -- indeed, for his time he was quite a futuristic character, employing deductive and scientific techniques that were at the bleeding edge of the state of the art for the time, not even widely used by police yet.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15 2013, 09:38 AM   #65
RJDiogenes
Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion
 
RJDiogenes's Avatar
 
Location: RJDiogenes of Boston
Re: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen gets pilot order at Fox

^^ It's not odd at all. Holmes' status as an innovator in forensics and as the world's first consulting detective doesn't really work in any other time period. It's like having George Washington elected president in 2012.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
That would kind of defeat the purpose, as the concept is literary characters teaming up.
I agree, but they did it with Holmes-- twice.
More than twice, actually. Some of the Rathbones were set in the 1940s. There might he other contemporary set Holmes as well. Of course the concept behind Holmes is that he the world's greatest detective and consults with the police. The concept behind LoEG is literary characters who are contemporaries teaming up.
I didn't think that was a great idea, either, but at least that wasn't too far removed from his original time period and they did their best to preserve the atmosphere. At this point a century has passed.
__________________
Please stop by my Gallery and YouTube Page for a visit. And read Trunkards! And check out my Heroes essays.
RJDiogenes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15 2013, 03:20 PM   #66
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen gets pilot order at Fox

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
^^ It's not odd at all. Holmes' status as an innovator in forensics and as the world's first consulting detective doesn't really work in any other time period. It's like having George Washington elected president in 2012.
The point is, Conan Doyle chose to write a character that was on the cutting edge, so if he were alive today and writing the character today, he would want him to still be on the cutting edge, even if the details of how that was achieved were different. Moffat's Sherlock is on the cutting edge in his use of modern technology, and the production is similar innovative in its use of onscreen graphics, effects, and editing to represent Holmes's thought process. I think Doyle would approve of the innovative spirit there. Robert Doherty's Holmes from Elementary is similarly at the forefront of technology -- surrounding himself with TV screens and putting cameras everywhere, using a magnifier app/accessory on his mobile phone, texting devotedly... and also being culturally progressive, having no problem with an Asian-American woman as his partner or a transsexual person as his housekeeper. To Doyle, Holmes represented progress and modernity. Just because the times have caught up with him, that doesn't mean he can't still be a forward-looking character.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15 2013, 09:17 PM   #67
Captaindemotion
Vice Admiral
 
Captaindemotion's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen gets pilot order at Fox

It would not surprise me in the least if this were modernised. I can just see some exec seeing it as a way to combine the superheroics of Agents of SHIELD and the updating-a-classic success of Sherlock and Elementary. Plus period settings are expensive and oft-times fail to engage audiences - from The Lone Ranger, to Pan Am, to the LXG movie. Yes, I know there are period-set hits, but by and large they don't do as well as modern-set movies (compare the take for X-Men First Class to that of the Last Stand, for example) and I can imagine that the recent failure of Lone Ranger will be in people's minds. Not to mention the similarly themed Showtime series I mentioned a few pages ago.

Of course, I hope it will be Victorian-set, I hasten to add.
__________________
Hodor!!!!!!!
Captaindemotion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 15 2013, 11:26 PM   #68
RJDiogenes
Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion
 
RJDiogenes's Avatar
 
Location: RJDiogenes of Boston
Re: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen gets pilot order at Fox

^^ Well, there are a few period pieces around that are pretty successful, but you're right, I don't have a lot of confidence that it will be successful with the contemporary audience.

Christopher wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
^^ It's not odd at all. Holmes' status as an innovator in forensics and as the world's first consulting detective doesn't really work in any other time period. It's like having George Washington elected president in 2012.
The point is, Conan Doyle chose to write a character that was on the cutting edge, so if he were alive today and writing the character today, he would want him to still be on the cutting edge, even if the details of how that was achieved were different. Moffat's Sherlock is on the cutting edge in his use of modern technology, and the production is similar innovative in its use of onscreen graphics, effects, and editing to represent Holmes's thought process. I think Doyle would approve of the innovative spirit there. Robert Doherty's Holmes from Elementary is similarly at the forefront of technology -- surrounding himself with TV screens and putting cameras everywhere, using a magnifier app/accessory on his mobile phone, texting devotedly... and also being culturally progressive, having no problem with an Asian-American woman as his partner or a transsexual person as his housekeeper. To Doyle, Holmes represented progress and modernity. Just because the times have caught up with him, that doesn't mean he can't still be a forward-looking character.
Those are just refinements and technological advancements, and the modern caricatures of Holmes are just using them, not inventing them. Holmes was something new, something never seen before. For a 21st century Holmes to be as compelling as the original he would have to create something that's as innovative now as forensics was in the 1890s and have an occupation as unique as consulting detective was. And even then he wouldn't be Holmes and it would be silly to use his name.
__________________
Please stop by my Gallery and YouTube Page for a visit. And read Trunkards! And check out my Heroes essays.
RJDiogenes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 16 2013, 09:16 AM   #69
Captaindemotion
Vice Admiral
 
Captaindemotion's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen gets pilot order at Fox

And, surprise, surprise, Moore isn't impressed by this idea:

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/07/1...emen-tv-series

"The announcement that there is a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen television series hasn’t caused me to drastically alter my opinions. Now it seems they are recycling things that have already proven not to work.”
__________________
Hodor!!!!!!!
Captaindemotion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 16 2013, 01:59 PM   #70
Gaith
Rear Admiral
 
Gaith's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, DC
Re: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen gets pilot order at Fox

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
For a 21st century Holmes to be as compelling as the original he would have to create something that's as innovative now as forensics was in the 1890s and have an occupation as unique as consulting detective was. And even then he wouldn't be Holmes and it would be silly to use his name.
This. With several generations' worth of professional police force develoment, it simply isn't credible for contemporary cops to employ or even tolerate an outside consultant. The honest modern-day Holmes update is L&O: Criminal Intent's Goren, whom Dick Wolf explicitly posited as such.
Gaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 16 2013, 03:26 PM   #71
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen gets pilot order at Fox

Well, the modern take is that Holmes is useful not merely for being the only person to use his techniques, but for being an exceptionally brilliant observer and analyst, able to discern patterns and connections that elude most observers who do use his techniques.

And really, I think the precedent for that is there in Doyle's canon. How often did we see Holmes say "Watson, you know my methods" and challenge him to apply those methods to solve a puzzle? Watson did the best he could using the forensic and observational techniques Holmes pioneered, applied them with care and intelligence and made some useful insights, but he still lacked the brilliance to see the solutions that only Holmes could perceive. The modern-day Holmes shows work the same way, except that the entirety of Scotland Yard or the NYPD is in the Watson role. Holmes is still Holmes; only his context has changed.

Is it a stretch for the police to employ an outside consultant? Well, yes and no. The police, FBI, etc. often do consult civilian specialists in particular fields where they need expertise. Sometimes they've even been desperate enough to consult so-called psychics. The break from reality is when they continue to work with these civilian consultants on an ongoing basis and the consultants end up doing the bulk of the detective work themselves, as on shows like Numb3rs, Psych, and the like. As a rule, if they need a certain type of expertise on a regular basis, they'll just hire someone to work for them full-time as part of the department. But that's just one of the pervasive conceits of series television -- taking something that should be a singular event and making a regular thing of it.

In the case of Elementary (and maybe Sherlock too, I forget), it can perhaps be somewhat justified by the fact that Holmes doesn't ask for payment for his services, but consults for free because he craves the challenge. Although then you run into tricky legal questions of Holmes's authority as a state actor or lack thereof, but then, that's no different from what you get in stories about Batman or other crimefighters.


Anyway, this has what to do with LXG...?
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 16 2013, 05:40 PM   #72
Mr. Adventure
Admiral
 
Mr. Adventure's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Adventure
Re: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen gets pilot order at Fox

Gaith wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
For a 21st century Holmes to be as compelling as the original he would have to create something that's as innovative now as forensics was in the 1890s and have an occupation as unique as consulting detective was. And even then he wouldn't be Holmes and it would be silly to use his name.
This. With several generations' worth of professional police force develoment, it simply isn't credible for contemporary cops to employ or even tolerate an outside consultant. The honest modern-day Holmes update is L&O: Criminal Intent's Goren, whom Dick Wolf explicitly posited as such.
I don't watch them but aren't Castle and the Mentalist outside consultants? Not sure if that's true to life but seems to work as a premise (assuming I'm correct about their roles).
Mr. Adventure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 16 2013, 06:02 PM   #73
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen gets pilot order at Fox

^I don't know about The Mentalist, but Castle was originally just doing research for his book, using his friendship with the mayor to get permission to hang around with Beckett and the detectives and draw on them for inspiration and realistic detail. So technically, he was consulting with them, not the other way around. But he happened to be clever enough that he turned out to be a useful participant in the detective work.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 16 2013, 10:53 PM   #74
RJDiogenes
Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion
 
RJDiogenes's Avatar
 
Location: RJDiogenes of Boston
Re: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen gets pilot order at Fox

Yeah, that sort of thing is no problem. It's just a trope of detective fiction.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, the modern take is that Holmes is useful not merely for being the only person to use his techniques, but for being an exceptionally brilliant observer and analyst, able to discern patterns and connections that elude most observers who do use his techniques.
But there are other modern detectives who see things that others don't see-- Monk is a prime example. Monk would not have been improved by calling Monk Sherlock and Sharona Watson.
__________________
Please stop by my Gallery and YouTube Page for a visit. And read Trunkards! And check out my Heroes essays.
RJDiogenes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 16 2013, 11:08 PM   #75
CaptainCanada
Admiral
 
CaptainCanada's Avatar
 
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Re: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen gets pilot order at Fox

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
And even then he wouldn't be Holmes and it would be silly to use his name.
He would be Holmes because he's Sherlock Holmes, the world's greatest detective, in any age.
__________________
"I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are!"

- Homer Simpson
CaptainCanada is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:11 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.