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Old July 14 2013, 12:22 PM   #16
Tosk
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Re: CGI Bruce Lee sells whisky

Maybe, but the CG still sucks ass.
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Old July 14 2013, 12:27 PM   #17
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Re: CGI Bruce Lee sells whisky

i think he borrowed cgi jeff bridges derp-mouth from tron legacy

certainly not as good as this entry in the "dead guy in an advert" category:



and this was from the 90's
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Old July 14 2013, 12:28 PM   #18
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Re: CGI Bruce Lee sells whisky

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Tosk wrote: View Post
A crummy CGI head spruiking a product the real guy would never have touched, using a language that he didn't speak...?

Wow.
It's a Chinese ad. If he spoke English it would be pretty useless in selling its product to a mass audience.
If Lee was still alive and now going to sue, would you make the same arguments to defend it?
Jarod, you don't like it when I insult the intelligence of your arguments, so why do you feel the need to ask me questions like this that beg for such a response? Why not just ask someone else? Furthermore, what does that have to do with my response in the post above? Do you deny that it's a Chinese commercial which is why it's in Chinese? That seems like an odd point to take your stand on. It's not even part of my defense of the commercial, it's just a statement of fact.

If Bruce Lee were alive and threatening to sue, that would mean he didn't approve of the ad or the use of his likeness, so obviously that would be wrong and I would not be arguing in favor of it. But since he's not alive, it's a moot point. We have no idea how he would react. It's all supposition based on the fact that he didn't drink for health reasons, which doesn't necessarily mean he's a prohibitionist who hates the very thought of alcohol entirely. Surely you don't think every celebrity who does a commercial is a loyal user of the product or service they're selling?

His very much living daughter however did approve and consult on the ad, and that's the person who has the rights to make those decisions now, so that's whose opinion I respect most. Why is it any of my business to tell her she's wrong about her own father? It's not like they have him doing some racist Charlie Chan routine which would be far enough over the top to make me question her judgment. He's just discussing personal life lessons, not getting drunk. It's a typical sophisticated liquor ad, with a bunch of esoteric commentary barely related to the product.
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Old July 14 2013, 02:35 PM   #19
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Re: CGI Bruce Lee sells whisky

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post

It's a Chinese ad. If he spoke English it would be pretty useless in selling its product to a mass audience.
If Lee was still alive and now going to sue, would you make the same arguments to defend it?
Jarod, you don't like it when I insult the intelligence of your arguments, so why do you feel the need to ask me questions like this that beg for such a response? Why not just ask someone else?
LOL, you really cannot stop doing it. I asked you because you are the one in the thread who is fine with it, while all the others are not fine with it. So who else should I have been asking? Carcazoid already made the point that he doesn't care either way, so I didn't bother going into details.

If Bruce Lee were alive and threatening to sue, that would mean he didn't approve of the ad or the use of his likeness, so obviously that would be wrong and I would not be arguing in favor of it. But since he's not alive, it's a moot point. We have no idea how he would react. It's all supposition based on the fact that he didn't drink for health reasons, which doesn't necessarily mean he's a prohibitionist who hates the very thought of alcohol entirely. Surely you don't think every celebrity who does a commercial is a loyal user of the product or service they're selling?
Well, usually they are alive and can decide what they promote.

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
His very much living daughter however did approve and consult on the ad, and that's the person who has the rights to make those decisions now, so that's whose opinion I respect most. Why is it any of my business to tell her she's wrong about her own father? It's not like they have him doing some racist Charlie Chan routine which would be far enough over the top to make me question her judgment. He's just discussing personal life lessons, not getting drunk. It's a typical sophisticated liquor ad, with a bunch of esoteric commentary barely related to the product.
That is the point, no one can be sure, not even her. Which is all fine and well UNTIL someone profits from it. They are using his image to make money, and he can't give consent anymore. Mr. Adventure's point about adding CG clauses into wills is a very good one.

This digital recreation thing will get more and more common, there should be proper regulations to protect your own likeness from being exploited for profit even after your death. There are instances where it's perfectly fine. Using Marlon Brando's footage he already shot for Superman II in Superman Returns for example, because he already agreed that the footage was going to be used by the studio in some form or another. All they did was digitally creating new camera angles. What's not right is this ad, and it doesn't matter that a relative agreed to it.

In principle, it's the same issue as with organ donations. If you don't have a will, someone else decides what happens to you. And I personally think if there is no will, then by default nobody should be able to make that decision.


But yeah, if you don't agree with it, then just go ahead and call it stupid again.

Last edited by JarodRussell; July 14 2013 at 02:50 PM.
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Old July 14 2013, 03:05 PM   #20
Alidar Jarok
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Re: CGI Bruce Lee sells whisky

Robert D. Robot wrote: View Post
According to the article, Lee was once quoted as saying “No, I don’t drink coffee or alcohol… They’re bad for my body.”

To create and distribute a cgi recreation of a dead person to promote something that the person was personally against during his lifetime is intellectually dishonest and disrespectful (I feel) to that person.
Well, I don't get the impression that he was morally opposed to alcohol. He just thought it was unhealthy. Since he needed to stay healthy, it was bad for him to drink alcohol (or coffee). I'm not sure he'd have a problem with CGI Bruce Lee drinking, though, since CGI Bruce Lee doesn't need to stay in shape.
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Old July 14 2013, 06:08 PM   #21
sojourner
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Re: CGI Bruce Lee sells whisky

junxon wrote: View Post
i think he borrowed cgi jeff bridges derp-mouth from tron legacy

certainly not as good as this entry in the "dead guy in an advert" category:



and this was from the 90's
To be fair, that's not CGI.
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Old July 14 2013, 06:15 PM   #22
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Re: CGI Bruce Lee sells whisky

i meant not as good as an advert. i could've been clearer.
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Old July 14 2013, 08:00 PM   #23
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Re: CGI Bruce Lee sells whisky

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
If Lee was still alive and now going to sue, would you make the same arguments to defend it?
Jarod, you don't like it when I insult the intelligence of your arguments, so why do you feel the need to ask me questions like this that beg for such a response? Why not just ask someone else?
LOL, you really cannot stop doing it.
Oh, I can stop, you just haven't given me a reason to, because you keep saying stupid, baiting things. Did you really think that was an intelligent or fair question given my argument? "Hey, if the person was still alive, and was clearly pissed that they were using his likeness in a commercial, would you still defend the commercial?" I mean really, you don't see the inherent logical problem there and how it's an entirely different set of circumstances? And you don't see how that depicts my argument as completely unreasonable and always in defense of the corporate ad makers regardless of the vastly different situations? You get a negative reaction because you provoke one.

I asked you because you are the one in the thread who is fine with it, while all the others are not fine with it. So who else should I have been asking? Carcazoid already made the point that he doesn't care either way, so I didn't bother going into details.
I made the same basic argument he did. Since the daughter approved of the ad, that satisfies me. Why is it my business to tell her she's wrong? You could have just addressed the question to the thread in general and waited for someone to respond, or you could have asked him. Instead, despite previously expressing (whining, more like) a problem with me and the way I respond to your posts, you chose to ask me one of your typical stupid baiting strawman questions, despite knowing I don't care for them and will call them out for what they are. At what point does it become you looking for trouble?

That is the point, no one can be sure, not even her.
But it's a bit arrogant to assume you or I know better than the man's own daughter, no? Especially when there's nothing particularly offensive being done here. Again, if she approved him doing some racist Stepin Fetchit type routine, I could sort of understand the outrage, but she didn't.

Which is all fine and well UNTIL someone profits from it. They are using his image to make money, and he can't give consent anymore. Mr. Adventure's point about adding CG clauses into wills is a very good one.

This digital recreation thing will get more and more common, there should be proper regulations to protect your own likeness from being exploited for profit even after your death. There are instances where it's perfectly fine. Using Marlon Brando's footage he already shot for Superman II in Superman Returns for example, because he already agreed that the footage was going to be used by the studio in some form or another. All they did was digitally creating new camera angles.
While Lee obviously couldn't have predicted the advent of CGI digital models of him being used in the future, he could have legally or personally (to family and friends) made it clear that he didn't want his likeness and/or voice and words (whether photos, art, film or audio clips, book excerpts, etc.) to be used in ads for certain things or just in ads in general. I'm assuming that he did not do this rather than assuming the worst about his daughter and thinking that she would just blatantly ignore his established wishes.

Regardless, in the absence of any specific restrictions prohibiting the use of his likeness, his daughter is most likely the one who is legally responsible for making those decisions, and even if just talking about things from an ethics rather than legal standpoint, she would certainly have a better claim to making that decision than you or I would. So, again, either legally or just in general, why is it my business to tell his daughter what she can or can not approve of?

What's not right is this ad, and it doesn't matter that a relative agreed to it.
I wasn't aware that you were authorized to make those decisions for everyone in the world, regardless of their closeness to the actual person in question. Congratulations.

You have your opinions on celebrities and historical figures and their depictions after their death, and that's fine. I don't always share your opinion there, and have found some of your comments on the matter in the past pretty extreme. I don't think we're going to find common ground here. But I find dictating to the man's daughter what she can or can not approve of to be a step too far.
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Old July 14 2013, 08:15 PM   #24
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Re: CGI Bruce Lee sells whisky

I wonder if John Lennon would have objected to his likeness being used in that Beatles Rock Band game? Some of the commercials for it were pretty creepy.
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Old July 14 2013, 10:34 PM   #25
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Re: CGI Bruce Lee sells whisky

This thread demands the return of the overused meme...

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Old July 15 2013, 12:36 PM   #26
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Re: CGI Bruce Lee sells whisky

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Robert D. Robot wrote: View Post
According to the article, Lee was once quoted as saying “No, I don’t drink coffee or alcohol… They’re bad for my body.”

To create and distribute a cgi recreation of a dead person to promote something that the person was personally against during his lifetime is intellectually dishonest and disrespectful (I feel) to that person.
Well, I don't get the impression that he was morally opposed to alcohol. He just thought it was unhealthy. Since he needed to stay healthy, it was bad for him to drink alcohol (or coffee). I'm not sure he'd have a problem with CGI Bruce Lee drinking, though, since CGI Bruce Lee doesn't need to stay in shape.
I do agree with you that Lee undoubtedly believed that alcohol was unhealthy (not "a part of this nutritious breakfast"), but I also did not go so far as saying that he viewed drinking it as immoral (although I realize that you are not saying that I did so, either! ). I just feel that someone that was very aware of what is good and not good for the health of his own body would probably (an assumption on my part, yes) wish to promote the same healthy practices (and encourage avoidance those unhealthy practices) in other's lives.

.... but maybe I am mistakenly making Lee into a health guru rather than an action hero.... !

I have no evidence to show that Lee would be violently outraged by the commercial, and I think he might be -if anything- simply 'greatly annoyed'. I may have overstated what I felt in earlier posts.
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Old July 15 2013, 06:04 PM   #27
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Re: CGI Bruce Lee sells whisky

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
If it weren't for the internet we probably would never have seen the ad.

He's dead. He doesn't care. If this is what his family wants to do with his likeness, good for them.

I don't care either way.

But I betcha Brandon's next.
How about keeping some respect for the dead and trying to think about what they wanted, how they lived their life and if it's what they wanted.

I guess Lee's family didn't think much about it and i can imagine money was a deciding factor.
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Old July 15 2013, 07:12 PM   #28
Alidar Jarok
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Re: CGI Bruce Lee sells whisky

Robert D. Robot wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Robert D. Robot wrote: View Post
According to the article, Lee was once quoted as saying “No, I don’t drink coffee or alcohol… They’re bad for my body.”

To create and distribute a cgi recreation of a dead person to promote something that the person was personally against during his lifetime is intellectually dishonest and disrespectful (I feel) to that person.
Well, I don't get the impression that he was morally opposed to alcohol. He just thought it was unhealthy. Since he needed to stay healthy, it was bad for him to drink alcohol (or coffee). I'm not sure he'd have a problem with CGI Bruce Lee drinking, though, since CGI Bruce Lee doesn't need to stay in shape.
I do agree with you that Lee undoubtedly believed that alcohol was unhealthy (not "a part of this nutritious breakfast"), but I also did not go so far as saying that he viewed drinking it as immoral (although I realize that you are not saying that I did so, either! ). I just feel that someone that was very aware of what is good and not good for the health of his own body would probably (an assumption on my part, yes) wish to promote the same healthy practices (and encourage avoidance those unhealthy practices) in other's lives.

.... but maybe I am mistakenly making Lee into a health guru rather than an action hero.... !
You may be right. I never knew Mr. Lee personally, so I couldn't say. But that's why I defer to his daughter's judgment because she knew him.
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Old July 15 2013, 08:19 PM   #29
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Re: CGI Bruce Lee sells whisky

FPAlpha wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
If it weren't for the internet we probably would never have seen the ad.

He's dead. He doesn't care. If this is what his family wants to do with his likeness, good for them.

I don't care either way.

But I betcha Brandon's next.
How about keeping some respect for the dead and trying to think about what they wanted, how they lived their life and if it's what they wanted.
It's not up to you or me to decide what is respectful to Bruce Lee's memory. That's up to the family, and this is what they decided to do. As I said, if it weren't for the internet, we'd likely never have heard about it.

I guess Lee's family didn't think much about it and i can imagine money was a deciding factor.
Like it or not, that's pretty much it.

How about we just get on with our lives and respect the Lee family's decisions?
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Old July 15 2013, 10:58 PM   #30
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Re: CGI Bruce Lee sells whisky

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
FPAlpha wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
If it weren't for the internet we probably would never have seen the ad.

He's dead. He doesn't care. If this is what his family wants to do with his likeness, good for them.

I don't care either way.

But I betcha Brandon's next.
How about keeping some respect for the dead and trying to think about what they wanted, how they lived their life and if it's what they wanted.
It's not up to you or me to decide what is respectful to Bruce Lee's memory. That's up to the family, and this is what they decided to do. As I said, if it weren't for the internet, we'd likely never have heard about it.

I guess Lee's family didn't think much about it and i can imagine money was a deciding factor.
Like it or not, that's pretty much it.

How about we just get on with our lives and respect the Lee family's decisions?
Why can't we discuss this?

The question is "Would you do it as well?" and "Would you be okay if your kids do it some day?"

And "Where is the point where even you would be saying that it's not okay what his family did?"
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