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Old July 15 2013, 09:22 AM   #1801
Shurik
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Klaus wrote: View Post
I wonder if the idea of Dany and her dragons [with Jon riding alongside, perhaps] vanquishing the White Walkers is just too obvious an ending, given GRRM's love for subverting tropes... but how else is it going to happen in-world? Unless Mel can turn Jon into the flaming messiah and have him do it alone?

I wonder how the fans would like it if the Walkers win and simply slaughter everyone, THE END.
Bran and the magic of the Children of the Forest maybe?
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Old July 15 2013, 12:22 PM   #1802
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Dany will feel like she's the people's joyous messiah saving them from the awful grip of tyranny, by arriving at Westeros with 3 weapons of mass-destruction and a horde of Dothraki rapists and murderers. She'll be seen as a major, evil threat, and be swiftly shot down by the combined forces of Westeros.
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Old July 15 2013, 01:44 PM   #1803
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Dany will feel like she's the people's joyous messiah saving them from the awful grip of tyranny, by arriving at Westeros with 3 weapons of mass-destruction and a horde of Dothraki rapists and murderers. She'll be seen as a major, evil threat, and be swiftly shot down by the combined forces of Westeros.
Assuming she somehow manages to get her dragons to behave. Meanwhile, she only has one.
Also, how will she get to Westeros? Moving thousands of people and all the needed equipment to other continent is an enormous logistical problem.
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Old July 15 2013, 02:19 PM   #1804
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

She's always needed ships from the beginning, and she seems to have shirked the one man (Xaro Xhoan Daxos) who can get them for her. I wonder how TV's Daxos will get out of his vault to show up again later (if he'll show up at all), considering Dany took the key and nobody else has ever been able to open the vault without it.
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Old July 15 2013, 02:22 PM   #1805
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Well, book Daxos and show Daxos have absolutely nothing in common apart from the name. One is a gaunt, pale, white, homosexual that ends his time in A Clash of Kings somewhat amicably with Dany... and one is a big black guy that loves fucking chicks, openly wears villainous intentions, and is presumably killed by Dany.

Oh, Season 2.
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Old July 15 2013, 05:24 PM   #1806
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

It's not like Dany really HAD a story in S2. She just wanders around Qarth not accomplishing much of anything.

Wouldn't work for TV. Neither would her visions in the House of the Undying.
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Old July 15 2013, 05:31 PM   #1807
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Do you think everything in the show is better? The Qarth plot wasn't even adapted for television beyond the names of things.

I jumped ship from the Avers A Game of Thrones audiobook as the sound quality was so poor, so now I've switched teams to Roy Dotrice.

His Tyrion is fucking brilliant. A much closer voice to the one I'd always imagined, and pretty much the opposite of Peter Dinklage's posh accent. Tyrion should talk like somebody the characters would underestimate, like Claudius in I, Claudius. His other voices are odd though, Arya sounds like an old lady.

Also, after Book 5, this book seems to have somewhat lightning pacing. I'm 150 pages in and a ton of things have happened, with every chapter advancing or developing the plot.
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Old July 15 2013, 05:53 PM   #1808
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Do you think everything in the show is better? The Qarth plot wasn't even adapted for television beyond the names of things.

I jumped ship from the Avers A Game of Thrones audiobook as the sound quality was so poor, so now I've switched teams to Roy Dotrice.

His Tyrion is fucking brilliant. A much closer voice to the one I'd always imagined, and pretty much the opposite of Peter Dinklage's posh accent. Tyrion should talk like somebody the characters would underestimate, like Claudius in I, Claudius. His other voices are odd though, Arya sounds like an old lady.

Also, after Book 5, this book seems to have somewhat lightning pacing. I'm 150 pages in and a ton of things have happened, with every chapter advancing or developing the plot.
I've listened to all of them on audio books and I found Dotrice's interpretation in ADwD to be pretty odd - he suddenly gives Dany a somewhat Scottish/ cockney accent which seems very off and which I don't remember from the earlier books.

And I had the opposite impression of AFfC and ADwD as everybody else. I thought DwD dragged and not much happened, whereas I was very engaged with FfC.

Having finally finished all the books, I've been poking around at Westeros.org and have been shocked to discover much Dany hate, and much Stannis love. Am I just in my own little ASoIaF world, 'cause that's not even close to the way I feel about those characters?? Dany is flawed for sure - but who isn't in this story? At least she seems to be actively learning, which is why I like her. And the number of people advocating for Stannis as the best ruler Westeros could hope for just blows my mind. Yeah, I want the guy being led around by the nose by the mad religious zealot...
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Old July 15 2013, 06:20 PM   #1809
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Yeah, I want the guy being led around by the nose by the mad religious zealot...
Heh, expect to find a lot of people disagree with you on that.
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Old July 15 2013, 06:30 PM   #1810
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

The Dany hatred has nothing to do with her in-universe character flaws, and almost entirely stems from her writing in ADWD, where she acts nothing like she did in the previous books, and is given an excruciatingly tedious stay at Meereen. She easily ranks as the least liked major character by fans after the last book.

I count the troika of Stannis/Melisandre/Davos as one of my favourite things about ASOIAF. Dunno how anybody couldn't love 'em. However, on Westeros there are a lot of Stannis fans that act like retarded meatheads. They white-wash the character to a ridiculous extent, claiming him as a "hero to all men" and all sorts of other nonsense. I love Stannis because he's complicated and well-written. His black-and-white sense of justice is obviously not a desired means of government however, and the comedy of errors he had with the wildlings was hilarious. I love how he considers Val to be a princess.

The only king I'd follow in real life would be Mance Rayder. He's somebody that became a leader through skill and respect, not a family bloodline.
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Old July 15 2013, 08:33 PM   #1811
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I think a lot of people forget when reading ADWD that Dany is a teenage girl, one who was given far too much burden and too much power at a far too young age. She went through the wringer, lost everything she ever knew twice and now, finally, is given a moment to linger on who it is she is becoming and what she actually wants out of life. So really, I can't bring myself to judge her too harshly for her behavior or her change in character.
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Old July 15 2013, 09:12 PM   #1812
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Shurik wrote: View Post
Also, how will she get to Westeros? Moving thousands of people and all the needed equipment to other continent is an enormous logistical problem.
Good thing Victarion is on his way with a huge fleet.
She just needs to get rid of the faux vikings once they've killed her enemies for her.
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Old July 15 2013, 09:28 PM   #1813
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Ack, but Victarion's POV chapters were so much more interesting than Dany's.
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Old July 15 2013, 10:31 PM   #1814
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

DalekJim wrote: View Post
The Dany hatred has nothing to do with her in-universe character flaws, and almost entirely stems from her writing in ADWD, where she acts nothing like she did in the previous books, and is given an excruciatingly tedious stay at Meereen. She easily ranks as the least liked major character by fans after the last book.
I agree that the whole Meereen stay was painful, but I think that's because Dany's initiation has always been painful. It was no more tedious than the trek through the Red Waste and it's all towards forging her as a great (maybe) leader. But folks were complaining just as much about her behavior in regards to Astapor and Yunkai as Meereen. Granted she is stumbling about a lot, but, as she herself frequently acknowledges, she doesn't know what she's doing.

I count the troika of Stannis/Melisandre/Davos as one of my favourite things about ASOIAF. Dunno how anybody couldn't love 'em. However, on Westeros there are a lot of Stannis fans that act like retarded meatheads. They white-wash the character to a ridiculous extent, claiming him as a "hero to all men" and all sorts of other nonsense. I love Stannis because he's complicated and well-written. His black-and-white sense of justice is obviously not a desired means of government however, and the comedy of errors he had with the wildlings was hilarious. I love how he considers Val to be a princess.
I find Melisandre and Davos really interesting. Stannis is a boring stick in the mud who can't seem to think for himself. Bleah. Even as scary as Melisandre is, I'd pick her as a leader before Stannis. At least she has her own plan and isn't all - hey, my brother stole the throne and now it's mine. Why? 'Cause law is law is law is law is...zzzzz...

The only king I'd follow in real life would be Mance Rayder. He's somebody that became a leader through skill and respect, not a family bloodline.
See that's why I like Dany. She's got the bloodline, but she's pretty clear on the fact that it doesn't mean she knows how to rule and she needs to learn how to be a good queen.
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Old July 15 2013, 10:36 PM   #1815
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Disagree, I think Dany is one of the most deluded, entitled characters in the series. She has no first hand memories or experience of Westeros, yet wishes to rule. She claims to be anti-slavery, yet plans to conquer Westeros by force and have everybody bend the knee to her. She "trains" to become a good queen by using brown people as guinea pigs.

She's full of shit and I can't wait for reality to hit her in the face. That's what makes her a good character for me.
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