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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old July 14 2013, 09:39 PM   #16
Christopher
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

Pavonis wrote: View Post
By rights, the Doctor shouldn't know anything about anything outside of medicine...
And initially he didn't. But he had seven years to expand his horizons. The difference between him and other Mark I EMHs is that he was active continuously instead of rarely, and thus was able to develop his mind far beyond the basic level of the others. By analogy, if an EMH were only activated on, say, an average of four emergency situations a year and left on for an average of six hours per emergency, then at the end of seven years of service that EMH would only be the equivalent of seven days old. Well, keeping in mind that humans sleep for about 1/3 of our lives, make it the equivalent of ten and a half days old. So most EMHs would still be effectively "infants," never having enough time to develop beyond their basic programming, even if they were in service for years. The Doctor was active every day and thus did have the opportunity to grow and learn.
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Old July 14 2013, 09:46 PM   #17
Pavonis
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

Clearly the Doctor had lots of learning potential, since he exercised it regularly. But was the learning capacity in the EMH intended for the program to develop an interest in opera or starship command? I don't think so. At first the Voyager EMH had little interest in anything outside of medicine and preferred to be shut down when idle rather than indulge in recreational activities. Was the change in his attitude a side effect of running longer than intended? Or was Zimmerman working on a long-term hologram and included the capabilities in the EMH for later use? I wonder.
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Old July 14 2013, 09:54 PM   #18
Timo
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

The learning capacity would be useful simply because the EMH could then deal more swiftly with the specific patients under its care. Being able to cope with complex personalities so that you can ignore the human interaction and cut right to the actual medical emergency takes a lot of skill, specifically skill in adaptation...

Possibly an Emergency Engineering Hologram would never have developed that way, there existing no design need to have it interact with personalities! But even an EEH might still be given a degree of curiosity, not for dealing with Starfleet equipment (no need for flexibility there) or even malfunctions in such (even those would be a limited set), but for dealing with alien technology, a major part of Starfleet engineering operations.

Ultimately, these holograms seem to be programs run by the main computer, rather than independent units. Allocation of resources as needed is a likely way for such things to operate, then, and the engineers might simply have neglected to install proper safeguards there.

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Old July 14 2013, 09:59 PM   #19
JirinPanthosa
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

It is likely that most of the Federation knew about he Dominion. There is subspace communication that can travel all the way across Federation space much faster than warp travel, and you know that it would have made the front page on the 'Federation news service'.

But, at this point in Voyager nobody had had any communication with home since they left, and at the point they left they were afraid of war but were not at war. It would not have been a hot topic of conversation among the crew and that's the only way the Doctor would have learned a lot about them.
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Old July 14 2013, 10:03 PM   #20
Pavonis
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

I can't stop thinking that an expert program designed to focus on medicine has to be considered corrupted when it starts to focus on learning operas.
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Old July 14 2013, 10:06 PM   #21
Kathy Kringle
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

I've always enjoyed that scene.
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Old July 15 2013, 12:00 AM   #22
Christopher
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Clearly the Doctor had lots of learning potential, since he exercised it regularly. But was the learning capacity in the EMH intended for the program to develop an interest in opera or starship command? I don't think so.
Of course not, but what's that got to do with anything? Evolution didn't "intend" the development of opera when it gave us our voices, nor did it intend baseball to be invented when it gave us the ability to throw things. And fields of knowledge devised for one purpose are often adapted to novel and unexpected purposes; for instance, I'm certain a lot of the mathematics used in creating computer graphics was formulated by mathematicians who never imagined there could be such a thing as computer graphics. The reasons why a potential was first created have never been a limitation on the possible applications of that potential.
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Old July 15 2013, 03:31 AM   #23
JirinPanthosa
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

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Of course not, but what's that got to do with anything? Evolution didn't "intend" the development of opera when it gave us our voices, nor did it intend baseball to be invented when it gave us the ability to throw things.
That's debatable.

Evolution did intend us to demonstrate ourselves as high value individuals in order to increase our mating potential and resource pool. Opera is a demonstration of skill and commitment, baseball is a demonstration of strength and physical domination.
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Old July 15 2013, 03:41 AM   #24
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

^First off, evolution didn't "intend" anything. That's why I put it in quotes. It's not a conscious force, it's a statistical process in which stochastically emerging traits that happen to increase reproductive success in a given environment are therefore reproduced more successfully.

Second, the point is that wherever a potential comes from, it's possible to repurpose it in other ways. Louis Zimmerman gave his EMHs artificial intelligence capable of learning so that they could be better medical programs. He never intended them to be left active long enough to repurpose that learning capacity for non-medical purposes; indeed, we specifically saw in "The Swarm" and "Life Line" that he considered that a misuse of the technology, something that it wasn't designed to sustain and that threatened to destabilize it.
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Old July 15 2013, 03:57 AM   #25
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

Christopher wrote: View Post
^The EMH was created to be an emergency medical supplement, not a fully aware member of the crew. He was only programmed with medical knowledge, not a complete Starfleet database. Anything he learned beyond that was through his own efforts. And why would he have bothered to brush up on the political situation back home?
When the doctor became sentient, he was an intellectual man, I find it rather unlikely he wouldn't keep up with the news from back home.
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Old July 15 2013, 03:58 AM   #26
Dream
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

Janeway had apparently never heard of timed bombs when she destroyed the Caretaker array, stranding her crew in the Delta Quadrant.
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Old July 15 2013, 04:12 AM   #27
Pavonis
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

Infern0 wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
^The EMH was created to be an emergency medical supplement, not a fully aware member of the crew. He was only programmed with medical knowledge, not a complete Starfleet database. Anything he learned beyond that was through his own efforts. And why would he have bothered to brush up on the political situation back home?
When the doctor became sentient, he was an intellectual man, I find it rather unlikely he wouldn't keep up with the news from back home.
What news would that be? Intelligence reports on the latest war developments? The Doctor's non-medical interests leaned towards recreational activities like arts and sports, not military matters.
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Old July 15 2013, 06:11 AM   #28
Third Nacelle
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

I don't really think anyone on Voyager knew that much about the Dominion. When Chakotay broke the news to B'Elanna about the destruction of the Maquis, he simply referred to the Dominion as new allies of the Cardassians from the Gamma Quadrant, as if he never heard of them before.

It's possible the destruction of the Odyssey was classified on a need-to-know basis, so the crew of a new ship going after the Maquis in the Badlands simply wouldn't have been privy to those events.
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Old July 15 2013, 07:53 AM   #29
Anwar
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

Dream wrote: View Post
Janeway had apparently never heard of timed bombs when she destroyed the Caretaker array, stranding her crew in the Delta Quadrant.
I wish folks would pay attention more, Timed Explosives wouldn't have worked. This was mentioned WITHIN the episode.
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Old July 15 2013, 08:39 AM   #30
Dream
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Re: So the EMH Never Heard of the Dominion

Anwar wrote: View Post
I wish folks would pay attention more, Timed Explosives wouldn't have worked. This was mentioned WITHIN the episode.
No, the array's self-destruct system was damaged. Doesn't mean Janeway couldn't have ordered timed explosives to be made.
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