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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old July 14 2013, 02:04 AM   #31
CorporalClegg
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

But see I view the change to digital filmmaking as progress. As such, he advanced the medium like no one else.
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Old July 14 2013, 02:23 AM   #32
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

And where would we be without Ewoks?
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Old July 14 2013, 02:36 AM   #33
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
But see I view the change to digital filmmaking as progress. As such, he advanced the medium like no one else.
Lucas and his company's influence on how filmmaking technology has advanced is something to be recognized. But that doesn't necessarily mean movies are better. They might look better. A bad film is still going to be a bad film if it has a lousy script, regardless if it's film or digital.
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Old July 14 2013, 06:56 AM   #34
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

thumbtack wrote: View Post
And where would we be without Ewoks?
Fucked.
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Old July 14 2013, 03:21 PM   #35
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

I absolutely love the original SW trilogy but I am one of those people who hate what the blockbuster did to film. I am also not happy about the over reliance on special effects and marketing to the teenage audience. Yes there are still good movies but film in general has been dumbed down in my opinion.

I am not going to blame Lucas for this (because like I said I do love Star Wars) but nor am I going to say Star Wars is the best thing to happen to film. In my opinion it is definitely not.

It is nice to see Lucas acknowledge Star Trek though. I always felt the whole Star Wars Vs Star Trek thing was beyond stupid. Both are great in their own way and I love characters from both. Star Trek as a successful TV franchise might have helped pave the way for Star Wars and at the same time Star Wars helped pave the way for the Star Trek movie franchise.

Needless to say no "sci-fi" visual media franchise has come close to topping these two.

edit: Also not sure if I want to praise Lucas for the whole "digital film" thing because I am not sure if digital is actually better but that is a whole other can of worms.

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Old July 14 2013, 07:28 PM   #36
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

Kinokima wrote: View Post
Also not sure if I want to praise Lucas for the whole "digital film" thing because I am not sure if digital is actually better but that is a whole other can of worms.
Lucas : Digital :: Cameron : 3D

The recent trend in 3D began with Avatar, which used the 3D to good effect. Now everybody does it, but most films aren't improved by it.

It will be interesting to see if 48fps catches on. I have yet to see a movie in 48fps, but I hope to do so when the next Hobbit film is in theaters. It will also be interesting to see how (or whether) 48fps makes it to home video.
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Old July 14 2013, 08:06 PM   #37
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

anh165 wrote: View Post
Lucas had the vision and created a franchise that has been part of modern culture for nearly 40 years.

JJ Abrams has been at the helm of very successful TV shows and helped Star trek regain popularity and made it accessible to people who would have normally avoided it.

So what will it be? Them or some director and production team that made Trek unlikeable and embarrassing like it was 12 years ago?
THIS.
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Old July 14 2013, 08:43 PM   #38
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
But see I view the change to digital filmmaking as progress. As such, he advanced the medium like no one else.
Like no-one else? Seriously? More than the Lumiere brothers, Sergei Eisenstein, DW Griffith, or Orson Welles?

Lucas had the good fortune to work with a terrific, innovative special effects company. He had the luck of being the director of the movie their special effects sequences were placed in. To view him as not only a cinematic genius, but THE cinematic genius, is ludicrous.

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
THIS.
I'd take ENT S3 and ENT S4 over a huge chunk of Star Trek, so I must disagree. I think it's a damn shame ENT was cancelled, and in no way is this a satisfactory replacement.
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Old July 14 2013, 09:19 PM   #39
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
So why cant Star Trek ever match Star Wars in popularity?
Maybe Star Wars is simply the improved (commercially) version of science fiction.

Lucas is a good director
He's excellent for looks and action scenes, making him a good second unit director, but he's terrible with actors.

Kinokima wrote: View Post
I absolutely love the original SW trilogy but I am one of those people who hate what the blockbuster did to film.
It wasn't really that much different before. I've seen movies from the 30s and 40s with similar sensibilities.
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Old July 14 2013, 09:20 PM   #40
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Like no-one else? Seriously? More than the Lumiere brothers, Sergei Eisenstein, DW Griffith, or Orson Welles?
Star Wars is possibly the most influential movie ever made, so yeah, kinda. Maybe except the Lumières and Edison, and the other pioneers such as Méliès, sure.

I'd take ENT S3 and ENT S4 over a huge chunk of Star Trek, so I must disagree. I think it's a damn shame ENT was cancelled, and in no way is this a satisfactory replacement.
That might have something to do with the fact that "this" are movies, and ENT was a series.
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Old July 14 2013, 09:30 PM   #41
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

DalekJim wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
But see I view the change to digital filmmaking as progress. As such, he advanced the medium like no one else.
Like no-one else? Seriously? More than the Lumiere brothers, Sergei Eisenstein, DW Griffith, or Orson Welles?
Derp.

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
George Lucas did more for the advancement of motion pictures than anyone since Lumiere brothers.
With the exception of maybe Griffith, the others are not applicable to the conversation. And Porter is probably more deserving.

They others' influence has primarily been artistic in nature. Artistic choices and changes never become ubiquitous (otherwise they wouldn't be artistic), so, by definition, they can't be considered absolute forward progression.

Lucas had the good fortune to work with a terrific, innovative special effects company. He had the luck of being the director of the movie their special effects sequences were placed in.
That's like saying Barack Obama had the good fortune and luck (if you want to be redundant) of being elected the first black American president.

Whether you like it or not, Lucas was the driving force behind all that. And he has had his hand in so many different cookie jars over the years, it is impossible to know just how far and wide his reach goes. The fact of the matter is, remove him from the equation and the current face of the industry is a lot different than it is. There isn't anyone else--save for maybe a studio person, which is impossible to know--that you can say that about.

To view him as not only a cinematic genius, but THE cinematic genius, is ludicrous.
Please indicate where I said this or even implied it.
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Old July 14 2013, 09:37 PM   #42
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
They others' influence has primarily been artistic in nature. Artistic choices and changes never become ubiquitous (otherwise they wouldn't be artistic)
Of course they do, that's why we have a definite grammar of shot editing used in the vast majority of movies. The form of cinema was shaped by the men I mentioned, along with many notable others (Hitchcock included!).

That's like saying Barack Obama had the good fortune and luck (if you want to be redundant) of being elected the first black American president.
What!?

Belz wrote:
Star Wars is possibly the most influential movie ever made, so yeah, kinda.
I disagree. Certainly the most influential to big budget American blockbuster action/adventure cinema but cinema in general? Most movies don't even have the budget to allow for Star Wars influence.
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Old July 14 2013, 10:07 PM   #43
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

Belz... wrote: View Post
Star Wars is possibly the most influential movie ever made, so yeah, kinda.
That's a very insular viewpoint. It's one of the most influential movies on American cinema in the past 40 years, certainly, but there's more to the world than our narrow slice of it.

Not to mention that Star Wars is also one of the most influenced movies ever made. It was only innovative in the sense that it was a fresh and irreverent take on very familiar, hoary action-adventure tropes. Pretty much everything Lucas does is a smorgasbord of homages to the work of earlier filmmakers. He's a distiller, packager, and popularizer of cultural influence, not a generator of it. He'd be nothing without the many, many other filmmakers he's made a career of pastiching.
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Old July 14 2013, 10:11 PM   #44
CorporalClegg
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Of course they do, that's why we have a definite grammar of shot editing used in the vast majority of movies.
Still not applicable.

The form of cinema was shaped by the men I mentioned, along with many notable others (Hitchcock included!).
With all those notable others--and we can add Leone, Ford, Ozu, Kurosawa, Dreyer, Murnau, Lang, Riefenstahl, De Sica, Kazan, Polanski, Coppola, Kubrick, Spielberg, Cameron, Stone, Tarantino, or the freaking Wachaowskis--any one of them could be removed from the blue prints, and the house of film, as it is in 2013, looks pretty much the same. Because, with all those people, it was ultimately a community effort. Remove Lucas, and it's a completely different style of house.

Never mind the fact you seem so set on limiting your scope to direction. That completely misses the point.

Lucas's impact goes well beyond that of any job title, not "director," "producer," or even "special effects maven." It's simply a matter of his total influence on the medium, as an art form and a business, as an individual.
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Old July 14 2013, 10:19 PM   #45
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Still not applicable.
What? Why?

The majority of movies don't even use special effects. The majority of movies do use the editing grammar laid down by the likes of Eisenstein and Griffith. The Birth of a Nation changed cinema on a technical level much more than Star Wars did. Without it, cinema might look completely different. Instead of just uh... cheaper?
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