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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old July 2 2013, 08:48 PM   #61
blueziggy
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Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor

chekov as the traitor could have worked very simply with out many re-writes. think about it. the grand conspiracy's plan was simple, b.o.p. fires on kronos 1, kronos 1 comes back and attacks the enterprise... everyone and their mother would expect kirk to defend the enterprise and presumably destroy kronos 1. enterprise carries on its merry way after and war breaks out.

no one thought kirk would surrender. chang and valeris are flying by the seat of their pants once kirk beams over.

simply have things play out the way they did but have chekov constantly bugging spock to go on a rescue mission (which would also lead to war, and the planned outcome). once kirk and mccoy are sentenced to prison, chekov could come clean and or be found out. and all he really would have done is forged the data banks. he doesnt even need to kill the guys that beamed over to kill gorkon.
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Old July 2 2013, 09:13 PM   #62
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Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor

Chekov's motivation...? Why, the Klingons killed his brother! Plus, he's been consistently racist about that ridgeheaded scum. So along comes Admiral Cartwright and tells Chekov he's to be a kingpin in a great plan to kick the Klingons when they are down, and the only thing he needs to do is betray his captain and fellow officers - the same people who shook hands with the repulsive enemy just one movie ago. (Plus, he's still bitter about that Vixis thing.)

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Old July 2 2013, 09:23 PM   #63
Greg Cox
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Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor

Timo wrote: View Post
Chekov's motivation...? Why, the Klingons killed his brother! Plus, he's been consistently racist about that ridgeheaded scum. So along comes Admiral Cartwright and tells Chekov he's to be a kingpin in a great plan to kick the Klingons when they are down, and the only thing he needs to do is betray his captain and fellow officers - the same people who shook hands with the repulsive enemy just one movie ago. (Plus, he's still bitter about that Vixis thing.)

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And, you know, he's never quite been the same since Khan put that thing in his brain, and V'Ger zapped him with that plasma bolt, and he fell off that aircraft carrier and cracked his skull . . .
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Old July 2 2013, 11:02 PM   #64
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Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor

Trek Survivor wrote: View Post
DrBeverly wrote: View Post
I wonder if anyone other than dedicated fans would have remembered Saavik, come ST VI? My feeling is that, even with bringing the character back, she would still feel like the 'new girl', and therefore the obvious traitor.
Agreed. Remember, she was barely in IV.

They were always going to have this problem unless it was one of the seven main cast members - the idea of it being Chekov fascinates me.
Perhaps, but they could have thrown in a few lines of dialouge that say referrenced the events of The Genesis Trilogy.
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Old July 2 2013, 11:31 PM   #65
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Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor

Belz... wrote: View Post
For what it's worth, although I like Alley, I think Curtis had more of a Vulcan quality to her. And she played the character the two previous times we saw her.

G2309 wrote: View Post
I thought it was Gene Rodenberry who thought Saviik wouldn't betray them. Nick Meyer thought he knew the character better though as he created her.
One of the flaws of VI to me is that once you know there's a traitor on board, it's not surprising that it's the new girl. The character is invented for the movie for the sole purpose of being a villain, which I find unfortunate. I'd call it lazy writing if I didn't know it was Roddenberry's fault.
Well, I was going to post here that I never realized it was Valeris until the big reveal, but then I just remembered that I read the Mad magazine parody of TUC prior to seeing the movie. So I don't know if I would have been stumped or not, despite my young age when I first saw the movie (I was 11)
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Old July 3 2013, 12:37 AM   #66
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Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor

The pretend Russian colluding with the pretend Russians? Brilliant!
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Old July 3 2013, 11:19 AM   #67
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Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor

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Except, and this has already been pointed out in this thread, it wasn't Roddenberry's fault. Roddenberry had fuck-all authority over Star Trek after The Motion Picture.
Ok so why did they listen to him, then ?
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Old July 3 2013, 12:13 PM   #68
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Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor

There is a diference between having authority and having to listen. They might have had to listen to him but they might have been free to simply ignore in part or in whole what he said.
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Old July 3 2013, 03:20 PM   #69
Timby
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Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor

Belz... wrote: View Post
Timby wrote: View Post
Except, and this has already been pointed out in this thread, it wasn't Roddenberry's fault. Roddenberry had fuck-all authority over Star Trek after The Motion Picture.
Ok so why did they listen to him, then ?
They didn't, that's the whole point.

Meyer wanted Alley to return as Saavik. She was busy with Cheers and she would have cost too much anyway, as the film was on a very tight budget. He did not want Curtis. So, faced with having a third actress play Saavik or creating a new character, he went with a new character.
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Old July 14 2013, 09:12 AM   #70
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Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor

Alley for sure. Robin Curtis was awful. The scene in Star Trek III when she tells Kirk that David has been killed is flat out cringeworthy.
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Old July 14 2013, 10:12 AM   #71
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Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor

SJK91 wrote: View Post
Alley for sure. Robin Curtis was awful. The scene in Star Trek III when she tells Kirk that David has been killed is flat out cringeworthy.
That's because Alley's Saavik was emotional because she was supposed to be half Romulan. When this idea was dropped, Curtis played her Saavik with hardly any emotion as per a normal Vulcan.
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Old July 14 2013, 02:49 PM   #72
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Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor

Which would make so sense, since Vulcan emotional control is a learned ability. Being half-Romulan would have zero impact if you were raised the Vulcan way.

Hence The Pandora Principle giving Saavik a backstory where she was sole survivor of a failed colony, and wasn't rescued until she was almost ten. Her control is dodgy in STII because it's not something she was taught from birth.
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Old July 14 2013, 05:56 PM   #73
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Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor

Chekov as a co-conspirator? No motivation except for the false Piotr memory. Janice Rand would have been a logical choice, getting back at Kirk for kicking her off the ship all those years ago. And because he tried to do the nasty with her without consent.
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Old July 14 2013, 06:17 PM   #74
Sran
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Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor

Melakon wrote: View Post
Chekov as a co-conspirator? No motivation except for the false Piotr memory. Janice Rand would have been a logical choice, getting back at Kirk for kicking her off the ship all those years ago. And because he tried to do the nasty with her without consent.
I always thought she engineered the transporter accident in TMP via sabotage to get back at him for his double's antics.

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Old July 14 2013, 11:17 PM   #75
SJK91
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Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor

Dukhat wrote: View Post
SJK91 wrote: View Post
Alley for sure. Robin Curtis was awful. The scene in Star Trek III when she tells Kirk that David has been killed is flat out cringeworthy.
That's because Alley's Saavik was emotional because she was supposed to be half Romulan. When this idea was dropped, Curtis played her Saavik with hardly any emotion as per a normal Vulcan.
Ah, I was not aware of this. Regardless, even if Curtis did play a Vulcan like she 'should have,' it certainly was not effective for the film.
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