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Old July 13 2013, 05:25 PM   #376
Sindatur
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

DalekJim wrote: View Post
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Do you or don't you think homosexuals deserve to be treated equally under current marriage laws? Quit tap dancing.
I believe that two wrongs don't make a right, and that the idea of gay marriage only shines a light on how outdated the concept of marriage truly is. Marriage as it is primarily exists is a breeding program, with the benefits being something to lure people in to it. Without the breeding aspect, I think it becomes utterly irrelevant, elitist, and absurd. The majority of new marriages end in divorce, as the concept is wholey outdated as it stands. I've no idea why the gay community should wish to re-organise themselves in a fashion akin to that of a heterosexual breeding structure. I think there is nothing progressive about it, and it is as conservative as it gets.

There is my answer to you, sir.
Marriage was invented as a Contract of inheritance, to ensure the proper flow of your estate upon passing. You can make babies without being married.

Let's try this another way, what is in marriage now, that you want gone, and what do you want to put into a Contract, just between the two of you, that the Government has no enforcement duties for, and how are you going to enforce it, with a gun?

Tax benefits, I got no problem eliminating, so take that off the table, and tell me how your Contract is different than "marriage allowed for all" and how do you make a Contract without the Government backing?
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Old July 13 2013, 05:25 PM   #377
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

BillJ wrote: View Post
But the question isn't about marriage. It's about whether or not homosexuals should be treated fairly under current laws including marriage laws.
Well, I obviously think marriage shouldn't be a legal institution, but if gays did enter in to it then their marriages should be treated exactly the same under law as heterosexual marriages, as I don't believe in discrimination on the grounds of sexuality.

I thought this would be incredibly obvious from my posts.

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Let's try this another way, what is in marriage now, that you want gone, and what do you want to put into a Contract, just between the two of you, that the Government has no enforcement duties for, and how are you going to enforce it, with a gun?
I think marriage should be a purely personal agreement between two people, with no outside enforcement involved.
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Old July 13 2013, 05:29 PM   #378
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

DalekJim wrote: View Post

I think marriage should be a purely personal agreement between two people, with no outside enforcement involved.
Then how do you resolve disputes?

And it's good to know that you believe that homosexuals should be allowed to marry under current laws.
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Old July 13 2013, 05:30 PM   #379
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

BillJ wrote: View Post
Then how do you resolve disputes?
What?
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Old July 13 2013, 05:31 PM   #380
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

DalekJim wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Then how do you resolve disputes?
What?
I thought the question was pretty straight-forward.
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Old July 13 2013, 05:33 PM   #381
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

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I thought the question was pretty straight-forward.
Well, I thought it made no sense. What disputes are you referring to? Things like custody of children or ownership of property could be resolved without marital status. Just like when non-married people have custody of a child or own a property.
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Old July 13 2013, 05:34 PM   #382
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

DalekJim wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Then how do you resolve disputes?
What?
When you want to see your dying loved one in the hospital and they won't let you because you aren't family, how you ensure you see them? Do you use a gun? Government can't help you with laws, because it's just between the two you, Society doesn't have to honor it
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Old July 13 2013, 05:37 PM   #383
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Sindatur wrote: View Post
When you want to see your dying loved one in the hospital and they won't let you because you aren't family, how you ensure you see them? Do you use a gun? Government can't help you with laws, because it's just between the two you, Society doesn't have to honor it
Well, I think that has more to do with a preferred reform in hospital visitation rights than marital status.
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Old July 13 2013, 05:37 PM   #384
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

DalekJim wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I thought the question was pretty straight-forward.
Well, I thought it made no sense. What disputes are you referring to? Things like custody of children or ownership of property could be resolved without marital status. Just like when non-married people have custody of a child or own a property.
I really don't think you should be discussing marriage, because you obviously know absolutely nothing about it.
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Old July 13 2013, 05:39 PM   #385
Sindatur
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

DalekJim wrote: View Post
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I thought the question was pretty straight-forward.
Well, I thought it made no sense. What disputes are you referring to? Things like custody of children or ownership of property could be resolved without marital status. Just like when non-married people have custody of a child or own a property.
Those have Government enforcement, you want Government out of the Contract
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Old July 13 2013, 05:40 PM   #386
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
When you want to see your dying loved one in the hospital and they won't let you because you aren't family, how you ensure you see them? Do you use a gun? Government can't help you with laws, because it's just between the two you, Society doesn't have to honor it
Well, I think that has more to do with a preferred reform in hospital visitation rights than marital status.
How does the hospital know you have the right, and how do you enforce it?
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Old July 13 2013, 05:41 PM   #387
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Those have Government enforcement, you want Government out of the Contract
The government would treat the seperating couple like they were two un-married people, without special favour. I don't understand where the confusion lies.
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Old July 13 2013, 05:43 PM   #388
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

DalekJim wrote: View Post
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Those have Government enforcement, you want Government out of the Contract
The government would treat the seperating couple like they were two un-married people, without special favour. I don't understand where the confusion lies.
There is no "special favor" in divorce. It's often a spectacularly ugly mess.

You are so naive it's unreal. Maybe it's time to put the Libertarian talking points down and do some honest research.
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Old July 13 2013, 05:44 PM   #389
DalekJim
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

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There is no "special favor" in divorce. It's often a spectacularly ugly mess.
I was talking about the special favor in marriage. Seriously, pay more attention. This is the third time now you've gotten upset over something that hasn't even been implied.
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Old July 13 2013, 05:46 PM   #390
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

DalekJim wrote: View Post
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There is no "special favor" in divorce. It's often a spectacularly ugly mess.
I was talking about the special favor in marriage. Seriously, pay more attention. This is the third time now you've gotten upset over something that hasn't even been implied.
Seriously, try to see a big picture for once in your life. Divorce can be as important to the process of marriage as saying "I do".
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