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Old July 13 2013, 03:44 AM   #16
iguana_tonante
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Re: Vorik the Ponfarr Vulcan

He most definitively is. He does't look like a plant or a fungus, never mind a protista or a monera.
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Old July 13 2013, 04:43 AM   #17
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Re: Vorik the Ponfarr Vulcan

Red_Panda wrote: View Post
I somehow feel unsatisfied with the unhappy ending for this guy. Although he acted weird, it was due to a hormonal imbalance. I feel that after B'Elanna beat him up, someone should have helped him. Also, how old was he? I was under the impression (that because Vulcans live a long time) that they reach Pon Farr in their 60-70s? Poor Vorik looks to be in his 20s.
Pon farr strikes first at puberty. Which could be anything from 7 to 14 years of age, and then flares up like clockwork every 7 years after that. Ipso facto, this was either Vorrik's third or fourth pon farr. Vulcan children/babies are betrothed, psychically locking these infants into biological imperatives which stops ugly virgins from dying out.

Of course does that mean that you can only pair Vulcan children of almost exactly the same age? Or are their pon farr's "synced" by the telepathic betrothal... Or do the girls and both have their own Pon Far where the other party is expected to bite down on a pillow, grin and bare it, aware if they can stomach it through this for the person they are committed to that in a year or two they'll do it for them too no matter how disgusting it gets? According to Memory Alpha, Spock was two years older than T'pring.

Arranged marriages mean dowries. After the smoke settled from Amok Time, can you imagine Sarek kicking the shit out half the planet until he got back whatever land and tithes he had handed over for that little twit T'Pring to submit to his mongrel son? I overstate the racism to explain that Spock must have been a difficult sell, and Sarek might have had to "pay" 3 or 4 times what other father's of pure blooded Vulcan children might have to pony up for a classy betrothal.

(Wait? Who pays? Parents of the bride, or parents of the husband?)

The formality of the arranged marriage we saw might have been just because Spock was practically Vulcan Royalty, which is why his "wife" was forced to commit to a halfblood alien freak she had no care for, when since they were both 30ish in Amok time, and we had seen Spock go through Pon Far as a child in Search for Spock.

Prostitution. Although in Alien Nation, they crouched this sort of thing in religion to make it less seedy. But really can you imagine your parents pushing a 12 year old version of you around your school asking all the other kids if they wanted to go behind the bikesheds with you before your brain explodes and you die? "Please fuck my kid, please." You can't trust tweens to sort this out by themselves, and it's wrong for adults to tell children when and where to become sexually active with whom. The parents probably have a buddy system where they frak each others kids.

Really though if masturbation works, I don't see how this would get anywhere near life threatening for a thirteen year old boy.

But what about the telepathic link? The link that drew Spock from the other side of the universe to get some? The link Vorrik generated within B'Elanna, that only made her super horny and equally as rapey without actually tethering her to any affection with Vorrik?

In cut scenes that were filmed and do exist, Savvik was knocked up by Spock, and we can see her swollen belly as she waves goodbye to the HMS Bounty on it's way back to Earth to face court martial, and then in the Novels Spock and Savvik were married long after the movies finished where young Lieutenant Picard did eventually attend in witness.

One problem is, how communicable is the telepathic link? If B'Elanna, despite being telepathically dormant, could spread it too, or if Vorrik went on to plan B and tried to link with more woman... Military discipline on Voyager could have quickly degenerated into a huge orgy.

This wasn't Vorrik's first rodeo, he's not an innocent, he's an idiot.
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Old July 13 2013, 05:56 AM   #18
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Re: Vorik the Ponfarr Vulcan

So with no Vulcan women aboard, what exactly would you say he should have done?
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Old July 13 2013, 06:01 AM   #19
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Re: Vorik the Ponfarr Vulcan

There were at least two Vulcan women aboard.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Unna...ulcanoid_nurse

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Unna...vision_officer

But Vorrik saw women for more than how pointy their ears are.

Besides...

What's Vulcaneese for "I joined Starfleet to get away from this shit"?
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Old July 13 2013, 06:41 AM   #20
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Re: Vorik the Ponfarr Vulcan

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
There were at least two Vulcan women aboard.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Unna...ulcanoid_nurse

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Unna...vision_officer

But Vorrik saw women for more than how pointy their ears are.

Besides...

What's Vulcaneese for "I joined Starfleet to get away from this shit"?
Ah yes, one of Voyager's wonderful inconsistencies. These two were nowhere to be found when Janeway was hiding them from inspections later on. Perhaps they were killed.

I get that Vorik is looking for more than just pointed ears. What I didn't get about he handled his situation is he should have started preparing for it long before his pon farr even showed up. You'd think stranded 70 years from home, he'd realize the logic in adjusting and trying to find a steady girlfriend or something long before his time of the decade. Aside from that, I don't see what else he could have done. He can't just decide not to have pon farr because he's nowhere near Vulcan.
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Old July 13 2013, 07:01 AM   #21
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Re: Vorik the Ponfarr Vulcan

Meditation works.

No one said that meditation wouldn't work for some people.

Although, if all else failed, there was always stasis till they got back to Vulcan.

I'm curious about if the telepathic link could have been used for intergalactic communication? That would mean, if it worked once, that to maintain contact with the Alpha quadrant that the Doctor would have to routinely and repeatedly induce Pon farr to send "word" to Vorrik's mate, or Tuvok's mate on the other side of the Galaxy, and then "stop" the pon far in the only ways that are acceptable.

I don't mean to be rude, well really I do, but the weight of this entire situation falls on the vagina of the Captain. The crew is her responsibility, and if she lets Vorrik die, no one else on the ship should feel compelled to follow her orders again, because Janeway cares more about her own dignity than her crews lives.

(If the Captain had been a man, ditto. The shere weight of Spock/Kirk slash fanfiction is in danger of sinking the internet.)

Although last time she melded with Tuvok, in Flashback, he gave her syphilis.

Once bitten, twice shy.
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Old July 13 2013, 07:05 AM   #22
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Re: Vorik the Ponfarr Vulcan

^I believe that Vulcan nurse was killed in Caretaker.

And I think that the reason Vorik didn't prepare better was that he didn't know what to expect with the Pon Farr. I'm sure as a Vulcan he was aware of it, but Vulcans don't really go around talking in detail about it. I'll bet Vulcan sex ed is basically "you'll have some hormonal changes, but don't worry, you'll be hooked up with an arranged spouse and everything will be taken care of."

And then - bam - Pon Farr comes along and it's a lot worse and more uncontrollable than he ever expected.
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Old July 13 2013, 07:17 AM   #23
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Re: Vorik the Ponfarr Vulcan

Why do a few of you think that this was his first Pon Farr?

Every seven years from Puberty.

Does puberty trigger pon farr, or does pon farr trigger puberty?

The most ridiculous margins would say that this was his second pon far if the character is the same age as the actor, like Spock was sorta/almost, which was unlike how the actress was half the age of her character in the case of Jolene and T'Pol...

Mark Leonard was not over 200 years old when he guest starred in TNG Sarek.

Alexander was 24 in 1996.

How old was Vorrik?
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Old July 13 2013, 07:20 AM   #24
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Re: Vorik the Ponfarr Vulcan

^What makes you think Vulcan puberty occurs at the same time as human puberty?

I'm sure if Vorik had gone through the Pon Farr before, he would have been better prepared, and would have been married already.

Wasn't Amok Time Spock's first Pon Farr?
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Old July 13 2013, 07:26 AM   #25
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Re: Vorik the Ponfarr Vulcan

Do we know for certain that it is puberty that triggers it? Maybe puberty brings about secondary sex characteristics but pon far requires specific brain development that doesn't occur until the twenties.
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Old July 13 2013, 07:29 AM   #26
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Re: Vorik the Ponfarr Vulcan

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
^What makes you think Vulcan puberty occurs at the same time as human puberty?

I'm sure if Vorik had gone through the Pon Farr before, he would have been better prepared, and would have been married already.

Wasn't Amok Time Spock's first Pon Farr?
Yes, which makes it difficult to imagine they experience it in their early teens, if in their teens at all. Spock's human half might have affected the onset of his though, either earlier or later. Now in Star Trek III I believe Saavik said they experience it every 7th year of their *adult* lives so I would take that to mean at some point in their 20's if that is when Vulcans are considered fully adult.
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Old July 13 2013, 07:39 AM   #27
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Re: Vorik the Ponfarr Vulcan

Search for Spock.

DAVID: This planet is ageing in surges.
SAAVIK: And Spock with it. It seems they're joined together.
DAVID: They are.
SAAVIK: How long?
DAVID: Days, ...maybe hours. I'm sorry.
SAAVIK: It will be hardest on Spock. Soon he will feel the burning of his Vulcan blood.
DAVID: But, I don't understand.
SAAVIK: Pon farr. Vulcan males must endure it every seven years of their adult life.
(David's tricorder bleeps)
DAVID: Whoever they are, they're getting closer.
SAAVIK: I'll go.
DAVID: No! ...I'll do it. Give me your phaser.
imdb listing for search for spock


Carl Steven ... Spock...Age 9
Vadia Potenza ... Spock...Age 13
Stephen Manley ... Spock...Age 17
Joe W. Davis ... Spock...Age 25
I'm assuming that those "ages" were taken from script direction, or a casting sheet, or the cast list at the end of the movie as the credits rolled.

Saavik shtupped Vadia, Stephen and Joe.



From Amok Time...

SPOCK: By our parents' arrangement. A ceremony while we were but seven years of age. Less than a marriage but more than a betrothal. One touches the other in order to feel each other's thoughts. In this way our minds were locked together, so that at the proper time, we would both be drawn to Koon-ut-kal-if-fee.
(A jingling sound gets louder, and Spock strikes the gong again. Two men enter shaking contraptions with lots of bells, followed by a woman carried on a chair. T'Pring and others come behind her.)
The artificial telepathic link that draws husbands and wives together is separate but associated with pon far. In the movie Spock didn't have training, hell... Spock didn't even have language. Pon far is something uncontrollable that happens no matter what. Betrothal/telepathicbondage is a process designed to civilly cut down on the massrape and body count.

There's also this...

SPOCK: The birds and the bees are not Vulcans, Captain. If they were, if any creature as proudly logical as us were to have their logic ripped from them as this time does to us. How do Vulcans choose their mates? Haven't you wondered?
KIRK: I guess the rest of us assume that it's done quite logically.
SPOCK: No. No. It is not. We shield it with ritual and customs shrouded in antiquity. You humans have no conception. It strips our minds from us. It brings a madness which rips away our veneer of civilisation. It is the pon farr. The time of mating. There are precedents in nature, Captain. The giant eelbirds of Regulus Five, once each eleven years they must return to the caverns where they hatched. On your Earth, the salmon. They must return to that one stream where they were born, to spawn or die in trying.
In all honesty it's been 20 years since i last saw Amok time... NO! I borrowed the dvds for a marathon ten years ago. Still, what's a decade between friends?
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Old July 13 2013, 07:42 AM   #28
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Re: Vorik the Ponfarr Vulcan

^^Maybe even later than that considering how long they live.

Spock was 37 in Amok Time, but I don't know how being half human affected him.
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Old July 13 2013, 08:03 AM   #29
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Re: Vorik the Ponfarr Vulcan

The strange thing is that Spock says that they did the betrothal ceremony when they were both 7 years old, but he's two years older than T'Pring by the time they try to get married... How did he gain two years?

Tuvok gained seven months in gravity when he was in the time warped sink hole which is going to completely put him out of sorts with his wife when he gets back... Will they need a full recommitment ceremony in a church with bells and shit or can they get'er dunn in a Doctor's office?

You're not counting the zero year as being a year of their adult life. It's not puberty, wait seven years PONFARR... It's PUBERTY/PONFARR double whammy, apologise for seven years to every one that saw something they shouldn't have, and then the second pon farr is close to or just after 20.

WTF!?

Why was Alexander playing "Third Malon Engineer" in Juggernaut?

C'MON!

I wonder if when Alexander Enberg googles himself, if he also googles "Vorrik" to see if people are still talking about him? ...Because he is going to find this thread.
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Old July 13 2013, 12:51 PM   #30
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Re: Vorik the Ponfarr Vulcan

The only reason he will find this thread if he googles vorrik is because you keep spelling it with two r's.
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