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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old July 12 2013, 06:42 PM   #16
Set Harth
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

Christopher wrote: View Post
But it was gracious of Lucas to acknowledge the importance of Star Trek to his own work.
Not that he really needed to; some of it is kind of obvious.

Vader levitating a coffee cup, as seen in the ANH comic/novel? Gary Mitchell did it first.

Palpatine shooting energy bolts from his bare hands? Gary Mitchell did it first.

Obi-Wan feeling the death of Alderaan? Spock did it first ( in The Immunity Syndrome ).
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Old July 12 2013, 06:59 PM   #17
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

I wouldn't say Star Wars owed much to Star Trek at all. It is based far more on westerns, samurai films and Flash Gordon serials.
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Old July 12 2013, 07:07 PM   #18
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

Opus wrote: View Post
Nah. Lucas wrote a great space opera back in the day. Then he became a marketing mogul with the SW brand and a SFX juggernaut with ILM.

But that was YEARS ago. It's not the 70's anymore.
Agree on all thoughts.
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Old July 12 2013, 07:08 PM   #19
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

Christopher wrote: View Post
serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
Lucas is a good director and writer as long as he doesn't write the romantic dialogues between Spock or Uhura, we should be fine.
Lucas is primarily a producer who started out as an editor. He has surprisingly little experience as a feature film director -- THX-1138, American Grafitti, and four Star Wars films, a mere six movies in a 48-year career, plus a variety of shorts and documentaries early in his career. Every other major film he's been involved with has been directed by someone else. As a director, his skills are primarily visual and tonal; he has very little proclivity for writing dialogue or directing performances. Most of his writing credits are story credits for productions that others wrote the screenplays for.


Back on topic, his statements in Trek Nation are not really big news, since the documentary came out two years ago. I'm surprised it took this long to get onto DVD. But it was gracious of Lucas to acknowledge the importance of Star Trek to his own work. There would've been no Wars without Trek paving the way.
Well said, Christopher.
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Old July 12 2013, 07:24 PM   #20
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

I tend to agree with Christopher as well. Out of the six SW films episodes V and VI had a co-writer credit if memory serves and dialouge wise they are the best of the bunch. What I think the prequel triology needed was another writer to help tighten up the dialouge. Like Chrisopher said from a visual point of view he knows what he wants but perhaps isn't always to tell the actor exactly what he wants. As for FX perhaps he finds that a more comfortable medium.
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Old July 12 2013, 08:20 PM   #21
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

George Lucas did more for the advancement of motion pictures than anyone since Lumiere brothers.

Is he a perfect filmmaker? No. He's made plenty of astronomical blunders.

Would Star Trek be lucky to have someone of his caliber involved with a project? Absolutely.

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Vader levitating a coffee cup, as seen in the ANH comic/novel? Gary Mitchell did it first.

Palpatine shooting energy bolts from his bare hands? Gary Mitchell did it first.

Obi-Wan feeling the death of Alderaan? Spock did it first ( in The Immunity Syndrome ).
Old tropes didn't originate with Star Trek.
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Old July 12 2013, 08:28 PM   #22
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

Lucas is a great idea man but he's terrible at dialog.

I've heard stories of Harrison Ford going to Lucas with a script and saying 'Nobody would ever say this crap', then ad-libbing something better.

Plus Lucas' sense of humor has significantly devolved between the seventies and now, now he's focused on adorable children, cute fuzzy things and wacky slapstick.

Lucas can come up with good ideas for movies but somebody else should hold the pen. Otherwise, meeza Jar Jar and Jewish stereotype aliens.
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Old July 12 2013, 08:29 PM   #23
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

Sure you could possible credit GL for how FX looks today with the creation of ILM. WHich took FX upto a new level.
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Old July 12 2013, 11:51 PM   #24
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
So why cant Star Trek ever match Star Wars in popularity?
Define "ever." Star Trek was very successful on film and TV during the '80s and '90s when there was no new Star Wars in sight, and ST had a massively successful tie-in novel line for well over a decade before Lucas decided he wanted to try to duplicate its success for SW.

And of course, it's safe to say that ST was infinitely more popular prior to May 1977.



DalekJim wrote: View Post
I wouldn't say Star Wars owed much to Star Trek at all. It is based far more on westerns, samurai films and Flash Gordon serials.
In storytelling, yes, of course. But the point Lucas made in Trek Nation is that ST's success as a profitable science fiction franchise helped him convince the studio that it was worth gambling on his sci-fi movie.

And of course it borrowed some things from ST, just as virtually everything in mass-media SF in the late '70s and early '80s borrowed things from ST. It cribbed terms like "tractor beam" and "deflector shield" directly, and had some thinly veiled borrowings like "proton torpedoes." Heck, just using bluescreen photography to shoot spaceship scenes was following ST's precedent.



MacLeod wrote: View Post
I tend to agree with Christopher as well. Out of the six SW films episodes V and VI had a co-writer credit if memory serves and dialouge wise they are the best of the bunch.
The screenplay to The Empire Strikes Back was credited to Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan; the screenplay to Return of the Jedi was credited to Kasdan and Lucas. Kasdan also wrote Raiders of the Lost Ark. I was always surprised and disappointed that Lucas didn't bring him back to write the prequels. He is involved as a consultant with the upcoming new movies, which I see as cause for optimism.


CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
George Lucas did more for the advancement of motion pictures than anyone since Lumiere brothers.
As a producer, maybe. But as a director, his only really impressive accomplishment is A New Hope. It's weird that so many people think of him as a director. He's a producer who's occasionally directed.


Set Harth wrote: View Post
Vader levitating a coffee cup, as seen in the ANH comic/novel? Gary Mitchell did it first.

Palpatine shooting energy bolts from his bare hands? Gary Mitchell did it first.

Obi-Wan feeling the death of Alderaan? Spock did it first ( in The Immunity Syndrome ).
Old tropes didn't originate with Star Trek.
There I'm in agreement. Psychic/telekinetic tropes are just a slightly modernized version of magic/supernatural tropes that have been around for millennia. Stage magicians have been levitating objects since before motion pictures were invented. Fraudulent mediums and spiritualists used hidden wires to levitate people and things, and claimed to be able to communicate with the dead or to sense things from vast distances. And the trope of powerful beings hurling lightning from their hands goes as far back as millennia-old myths about storm gods such as Zeus and Thor.

What Star Trek and Star Wars have in common is that they didn't invent tropes so much as distill and popularize pre-existing tropes. The difference is their source material. ST drew largely on prose SF literature ranging from the pulp era of the '30s to the proto-New Wave of the '60s, as well as borrowing a little Forbidden Planet and the like. SW, as mentioned above, was largely a pastiche of adventure serials like Flash Gordon as well as Westerns, WWII movies, and a liberal helping of sword-and-sorcery fantasy.
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Old July 13 2013, 12:11 AM   #25
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

Keep Lucas far, far away from Star Trek.
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Old July 13 2013, 06:57 PM   #26
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Palpatine shooting energy bolts from his bare hands? Gary Mitchell did it first.
Actually Elizabeth Dehner did it first.

/nit
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Old July 13 2013, 11:56 PM   #27
Nerys Myk
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I wouldn't say Star Wars owed much to Star Trek at all. It is based far more on westerns, samurai films and Flash Gordon serials.
And you think Star Trek wasn't?

Okay, maybe not Samurai films.
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Old July 14 2013, 12:42 AM   #28
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

Lucas and Roddenberry were both hacks stealing from Harlan Ellison.
Even though his script was changed and Paramount has made bank on the episode, Ellison has elected to move on from the disappointing experience. “They’ve made all manner of tchotchkes and geegaws out of it,” he said. “And the fact that Paramount and their heirs have made millions upon millions off me and I have made only thousands and thousands is something you learn to live with after, what?… forty years. If you don’t learn to live with it, you are a petty person, and I live every day in hopes that I will be just a little bit smarter than I was the day before.”
Do Sturgeon, Bixby, Spinrad, Matheson and other sci-fi icons who contributed to Trek ever whine about the money Paramount made off their stories?
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Old July 14 2013, 01:30 AM   #29
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

Of that group, only Spinrad is still alive.
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Old July 14 2013, 01:41 AM   #30
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Re: George Lucas: Star Wars stood on the shoulders of Star Trek

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
George Lucas did more for the advancement of motion pictures than anyone since Lumiere brothers.
I think it'd be more accurate -- MUCH more accurate -- to say he did more to change motion pictures than anybody since the Lumieres.

Digital wouldn't have evolved as quickly, and certainly wouldn't have caught on at the speed it has, if he hadn't spearheaded various processes in sound, VFX, editorial and cinematography ... but since those changes haven't always necessarily improved matters, but did make it possible to work much faster or at a greater volume of output (note I'm NOT grouping digital compositing in with this, because that seems to have been a win-win through and through), and since it has been in service to films that percentagewise seem significantly inferior to their predecessors ...

And no, GL is not singlehandedly responsible for dumbing down the industry. But it isn't coincidental that after JAWS and then GL's big pic, that the supremely impressive era of filmmaking we saw in the early 70s has never recurred. I mean, for every EARTHQUAKE there was a THE LAST DETAIL, for every Bronson pic there were as many Coppolas (for a little while anyway) ...
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