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TrekToday http://www.trektoday.com/content Daily Star Trek news Sun, 02 Aug 2015 16:53:37 +0000 en-US hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.3 Retro Review: Learning Curve http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/retro-review-learning-curve/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/retro-review-learning-curve/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 21:16:02 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41256 Tuvok attempts to train four Maquis crewmembers who are having difficulty following Starfleet protocols.

Plot Summary: Lieutenant Dalby discovers a malfunctioning bio-neural gel pack and replaces it without getting authorization, which causes several systems ship-wide to stop working. Tuvok expresses concern to Janeway that Dalby and some other Maquis crewmembers are not trained or disciplined enough to work on a Starfleet vessel. Though Janeway is more worried about the possibility of multiple gel pack failures disabling Voyager’s systems, she recommends an on-the-job training course for the crewmembers having the greatest difficulties. Chakotay gives onetime Starfleet Academy instructor Tuvok a list of possible candidates, from which Tuvok selects four junior officers – impulsive Dalby, belligerent Henley, unfocused Chell, and bitter Gerron – who deeply resent being singled out for extra attention. The group complains when Tuvok insists that they remove all traces of their personal style from their professional demeanor and marches out after what they consider to be an unfair physical exercise. Neelix offers Tuvok some wisdom about plant stalks needing to be flexible, which Tuvok at first takes to mean that the young crewmembers are too rigid, then discovers that Neelix means to criticize himself and his teaching methods. He tries to get to know Dalby and realizes that some of the Maquis crewmembers suffered traumas that make it impossible for them to become contented, well-adjusted Starfleet officers overnight. Meanwhile, the Doctor discovers that Neelix’s attempt to make cheese has cultivated a bacteria that now infects the gel packs. The Doctor proposes raising the temperature to help the gel packs fight off the infection, but although the gel packs are saved, Tuvok and his unhappy team become trapped in a cargo bay where Gerron is injured. Dalby becomes irate when Tuvok orders him to get to safety with Henley and Chell, but when Tuvok himself violates procedure, risking his life to save Gerron, the Maquis officers are impressed and promise to work harder to obey the rules.

Analysis: I didn’t like “Learning Curve” when it first aired for its obnoxious attitude toward Maquis dissidents and indeed toward anyone who refused to assimilate entirely into Starfleet’s arbitrary regulations, which I thought at the time might just reflect my lack of understanding of how military protocols worked. But it rubs me the wrong way even more so now that we’ve seen some of the history of Vulcan intolerance in Enterprise, and now that we know the Maquis will be asked to give up their sense of belonging to their own cultures as well as their identities as members of an organization in conflict with Starfleet (the latter a demand that’s completely justified on a mission like Voyager’s, though I note that Worf was allowed to wear the accoutrements of a Klingon warrior on duty even when the Klingons were at war with the Federation). Of course it’s a problem that many of the Maquis have not had Starfleet training in teamwork, physical fitness, even self-protection, though I might note that Neelix and Kes haven’t either. It would seem both reasonable and fair for Tuvok to include them in a course to get underprepared crewmembers ready for life traveling through the Delta Quadrant, particularly since Kes had never left her village, let alone her homeworld, until just before Voyager arrived. The cheese incident that almost destroys the bio-neural gel packs is a far more heinous betrayal of safety protocols than the replacement of one of those gel packs, even if Dalby is rude when reprimanded while Neelix only stammers in embarrassment. And surely there are Starfleet crewmembers as well as Maquis who were unprepared to have a brief mission into the Badlands turn into a potentially lifelong journey? Couldn’t many of the junior officers use a refresher course in focus and teamwork? If Janeway and Chakotay’s goal is to get their two crews functioning as a single unit with the same ease with which Torres now works with Carey, they’d be well advised to include some Starfleet officers in the remedial class even just for show. Not so long ago, Tom Paris was a criminal and Torres was punching fellow officers, while now they’re fourth and fifth in the command chain; seems like a lot of people on that ship could use a bit of extra attention.

And although Tuvok may have been an Academy instructor for more than a decade, he seems like the wrong person to be leading an exercise in new-to-Starfleet teamwork. These angry, demoralized Maquis crewmembers need a counselor, not a disciplinarian; the morale officer might do them more good, and indeed does them more good when he lectures Tuvok, than a stern Vulcan whom they consider a traitor to their cause. I think it’s a mistake that we see the senior officers’ point of view rather than that of the recruits, since we don’t get to learn the positive independent-minded aspects of what Chakotay dismisses as “the Maquis way.” A strong left hook may get someone hauled before a disciplinary committee in Starfleet, but we’ve had such behavior by the Klingons rammed down our throats for years now as something we should admire, so it just doesn’t look particularly outrageous when a Maquis crewmember does precisely what a Klingon would do in a similar situation of being singled out for his temper. Apart from Dalby, who joined the Maquis because Cardassians brutalized his girlfriend, we never get to know the Maquis crewmembers, and the more Tuvok talks, the more arrogant he seems, like the obnoxious Vulcans of “Take Me Out to the Holosuite” rather than thoughtful, nuanced individuals like Spock and Sarek. Now that the US military and other such organizations have relaxed their rules about whether and when soldiers can wear yarmulkes, hijabs, and other items directly related to the practice of religion, I feel even more justified in my fury against Tuvok when he orders Gerron to take off his Bajoran earring – an accessory quite different from the headband that Tuvok forbids Henley to wear. The Bajoran earring is a symbol of faith. It’s also a mark of one’s family and social caste, two things that the young Gerron has lost being stranded 70,000 light years from home. Whether he had lost those already in a traumatic incident that led him to join the Maquis, as Dalby seems to believe, or whether he joined the Maquis out of sympathy for the settlers’ desire to protect their homes, like Kasidy Yates, Gerron is clearly clinging to this one meaningful relic of his former life, which Tuvok orders him to put away without any care for its significance.

Clearly, Tuvok is obsessed with the letter of the law rather than its spirit – he’s closer to being Javert from Les Miserables than was Sisko when Eddington mocked him with that sobriquet – but given the pettiness of the Vulcans we saw in many TNG and DS9 episodes, I gather we’re supposed to assume that it’s because Tuvok’s a Vulcan, for whom logic demands holding even to the most trivial of regulations. But I can’t understand why Chakotay agrees to let someone whom he thought served his own cause, then turned out to have been working behind his back all along, serve as corrections officer for other Maquis crewmembers. Chakotay’s facial tattoo would not be permitted even in the current US military, and I’d love to hear his response if Tuvok ordered him to remove it or cover it up. He’s usually a champion of diversity and broadmindedness, yet he seems amused at the thought of having four shipmates for whom he was once responsible, who are as troubled as they are troubling, put under Tuvok’s yoke. Of course ship-wide discipline is important in a crisis, as we see when it takes much of the crew working together to solve the problem with the gel packs, but a rigid dress code for people who will be working together for many years can hardly be the element that makes them see themselves as a team. It will be acknowledging, understanding, accepting, and taking advantage of their differences which will accomplish that. If the Starfleet uniform serves to bond Voyager’s crew in early days, it later serves to homogenize them; no wonder Sisko preferred spending his off-duty hours in African dress and Kira never stopped wearing her Bajoran earring even when in Starfleet uniform. “Learning Curve” fails in its effort to be “Lower Decks” because it fears to let us get to know and admire the quirks of the individual Maquis, erasing their distinct histories and grievances even as Janeway’s off playing traditional British governess in a traditional British novel knockoff. She needs to spend more time thinking about exactly which aspects of the Federation she plans to keep thriving on her ship as it creeps toward home.

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Star Trek: The Exhibition In Washington State http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-the-exhibition-in-washington-state/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-the-exhibition-in-washington-state/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 19:00:37 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41252 Star Trek: The Exhibition will be arriving at the Washington State Fair in September.

The Washington State Fair will take place September 11-27 in Puyallup.

Star Trek: The Exhibition, under license by CBS Consumer Products, will run for seventeen days and gives visitors the opportunity to enjoy an interactive, museum-style experience of one of the largest collections of authentic Star Trek artifacts and information ever put on public display. This is a separate ticketed exhibit, and requires Fair admission. Exhibit tickets can be purchased in advance for $6.50 until Sept 10 here, or $8 at the State Fair. Children five years and under are free in the exhibit with a paid adult. Online orders are subject to standard processing fees.

The Exhibition brings visitors into the Star Trek universe and allows them to connect with iconic Star Trek moments. Throughout this experience, visitors, especially younger visitors and youth, will be inspired and motivated to seek out more education, and perhaps ignite a passion for lifelong learning and careers in science and technology.

Star Trek fans and novices alike will have a first-hand interactive experience to explore the worlds, wisdom, science, stories, cultures, characters, fashions and fantasies of the Star Trek universe. In the States, and around the world, Star Trek has become a sub-culture for many, supported by countless fan conventions and fan gatherings where many regularly gather and role-play in their favorite Star Trek characters.

“Among the main attractions of The Exhibition is the opportunity to sit in the legendary Captain’s chair where Captain Kirk and subsequently Captain Picard took command of the U.S.S. Enterprise; the opportunity to pose in front of a replica of the U.S.S. Enterprise; and one-of-a-kind displays, interactive kiosks and rare photo opportunities.”

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August-September 2015 Trek Conventions And Appearances http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/august-september-2015-trek-conventions-and-appearances/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/august-september-2015-trek-conventions-and-appearances/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:53:51 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41248 There will be nineteen conventions, shows or appearances in August and September that will feature actors of interest to Star Trek fans.

This listing of conventions and shows features actors from all of the televised series and several of the Star Trek movies.

August begins with The Official Star Trek Convention will be held Aug. 6-9 at the Rio Suites Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada. In attendance at The Official Star Trek Convention will be Marc Alaimo, Vaughn Armstrong, Richard Arnold, Rene Auberjonois, Robert Beltran, Casey Biggs, John Billingsley, Brannon Braga, Bobby Clark, Joan Collins, Jeffrey Combs, Denise Crosby, Olivia d’Abo, Michael Dante, James Darren, Roxanne Dawson, Nicole de Boer, John de Lancie, Elizabeth Dennehy (Commander Shelby), Chris Doohan, Michael Dorn, Doug Drexler, Aron Eisenberg, Terry Farrell, Jonathan Frakes, Bryan Fuller, Joseph Gatt, Max Grodenchik, Richard Herd, J.G. Hertzler, Jennifer Hetrick (Vash), Manu Intiraymi, Sherry Jackson, Salome Jens, Dominic Keating, Walter Koenig, Alice Krige, Cirroc Lofton, Don Marshall, Chase Masterson, Robert Duncan McNeill, Anthony Montgomery, Ronald B. Moore, Kate Mulgrew, Larry Nemecek, Adam Nimoy, Denise Okuda, Mike Okuda, Robert O’Reilly, Linda Park, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picardo, Andrew Robinson, Rod Roddenberry, David L. Ross (Lt. Galloway and Lt. Johnson), Saul Rubinek, Tim Russ, Jeri Ryan, Judson Scott (Joachim from The Wrath of Khan), William Shatner, Mark Allen Shepherd (Morn), William Morgan Sheppard, Armin Shimerman, Alexander Siddig, Marina Sirtis, Rick Sternbach, Sir Patrick Stewart, Kitty Swink, George Takei, Connor Trinneer, Karl Urban, Nana Visitor, Garrett Wang, and Michael Westmore.

Next up is Shore Leave, to be held Aug. 7-9 at the Baltimore Hunt Valley Inn in Hunt Valley, Maryland. In attendance at Shore Leave will be Daniel Davis (Professor James Moriarty).

The Steel City Con will be held Aug. 7-9 at the Monroeville Convention Center in Monroeville, Pennsylvania. In attendance at Steel City Con will be Nichelle Nichols.

The Dublin Comic Con will be held Aug. 8-9 at the Convention Centre Dublin in Dublin, Ireland. In attendance at Dublin Comic Con will be Gates McFadden.

The Windsor ComiCon will be held Aug. 15-16 at the Caesars Windsor in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at Windsor ComiCon will be Marina Sirtis.

Crypticon Kansas City will take place Aug. 21-23 at the Howard Johnson Plaza in Kansas City, Missouri. In attendance at Crypticon Kansas City will be Sid Haig, Chris Sarandon, and Tony Todd.

Walker Stalker Con will be held Aug. 22-23 at the Westin Waterfront in Boston, Massachusetts. In attendance at Walker Stalker Con will be Denise Crosby.

The Central Coast Comic Con will take place Aug. 28-30 at the Ventura County Fairgrounds in Ventura, California. In attendance at Central Coast Comic Con will be Sid Haig (Lawgiver in Return of the Archons) and Deep Roy.

Wrapping up August will be the Bournemouth Film & Comic Con, to be held Aug. 29-30 at the Bournemouth International Centre in Bournemouth, England. In attendance at the Bournemouth Film & Comic Con will be Max Grodenchik.

September begins with Fan Expo Canada, which will be held Sept. 3-6 at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at Fan Expo Canada will be Jeffrey Combs, Malcolm McDowell, Jennifer Morrison, Kate Mulgrew, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picardo, and Jeri Ryan.

Dragon*Con will take place Sept. 4-7 at several hotels in Atlanta, Georgia. In attendance at Dragon*Con will be Terry Farrell, Jonathan Frakes, Gary Lockwood, and Paul McGillion.

Wizard World Comic Con San Jose will be held Sept. 4-6 at the San Jose Convention Center in San Jose, California. In attendance at Wizard World Comic Con San Jose will be Adrienne Barbeau.

The Alamo City Comic Con will be held Sept. 11-13 at the Henry B. Gonzalez Convention Center in San Antonio, Texas. In attendance at Alamo City Comic Con will be Olivia d’Abo and Ron Perlman.

The Wizard World Comic Con Pittsburgh will be held Sept. 11-13 at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Appearing at Wizard World Comic Con Pittsburgh will be Colm Meaney and William Shatner.

RocCon will be held Sept. 11-13 at the Kodak Event Center in Rochester, New York. In attendance at RocCon will be Nichelle Nichols and Marina Sirtis.

Wizard World Comic Con Columbus will be held Sept. 18-20 at the Greater Columbus Convention Center in Columbus, Ohio. Appearing at Wizard World Comic Con Columbus will be Brent Spiner.

The Rose City Comic Con will be held Sept. 19-20 at the Oregon Convention Center in Portland, Oregon. In attendance at Rose City Comic Con will be Walter Koenig, Nichelle Nichols, and Wil Wheaton.

The Salt Lake Comic Con will be held Sept. 24-26 at the Salt Palace in Salt Lake City, Utah. Walter Koenig will be appearing at the Salt Lake Comic Con.

September wraps up with the London Comic Con, to be held Sept. 25-27 at the Western Fair District in London, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at the London Comic Con will be Nicole de Boer and Ron Perlman.

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Shatner To Pen Book On Nimoy http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/shatner-to-pen-book-on-nimoy/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/shatner-to-pen-book-on-nimoy/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:45:58 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41245 William Shatner is planning on writing a book about his friend Leonard Nimoy.

Shatner considered Nimoy to be a brother to him.

“I’m writing a book about Leonard,” said Shatner. “I had a brother, whose life arc was so much like mine that we understood each other completely. Our age, our birth, the same types of problems in our marriages – our careers arced in the same manner.

“We had a great deal in common, Leonard and I. And thusly we were able to understand each other. I’ve lost a dear friend.”

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Star Trek Beyond Building Continues http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-beyond-building-continues/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-beyond-building-continues/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:42:43 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41236 More photographs from the Star Trek Beyond set have emerged.

Five new photos show the progress made in building the set which began back in May.

STB-1

The first photo shows the bare bones of the set back in May.

STB-2

The second photo shows what appeared to be a building with some broken trees on it.

STB-3

In the third photo, it becomes clear that the second photo was not a building, but hills with broken trees. The plywood of the second photo has been covered with dirt.

STB-4

STB-5

In the last two photos, the “hills” set is being expanded.

Larger-sized photos are available at the referring site.

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Trinneer In Western Horror http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/trinneer-in-western-horror/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/trinneer-in-western-horror/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:14:05 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41232 Fans of Connor Trinneer will be able to see the actor in a western horror movie set to release on DVD and VOD beginning August 4.

The movie is called A Good Day To Die.

In A Good Day To Die, “Baron Emerson uses his vast wealth to travel the world and hunt. He does not hunt animals, he hunts warriors. The Baron arrives at the American frontier and is looking for his next prey. An outlaw gunslinger named Chamberlin who is in jail and set to be hanged. The Baron arranges for Chamberlin to be freed so that he can hunt him like an animal in a bloody game of life and death in the Wild West.”

Trinneer portrays the hunted Chamberlin, while Robert Koroluck is the hunter Baron Emerson. Others included in A Good Day To Die include Nadia Lanfranconi, Jay Kown, and Leia Perez.

A Good Day To Die was written and directed by Rene Perez.

The movie has already made its European debut, where it was released under the title Prey For Death.

For US fans, to pre-order A Good Day To Die, which sells for $8.46, head to the link located here.

 

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Beam Me Up Scotty Figurines http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/beam-me-up-scotty-figurines/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/beam-me-up-scotty-figurines/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:10:46 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41229 Two new original series figures feature Kirk and Spock in the process of “beaming up.”

The figures will be available from Funko beginning next month.

Each poseable figure is 3 3/4″ in height and features a beaming effect (the bottom part of each character shows this effect). “Captain James T. Kirk [and Spock have five] points of articulation and features unique accessories and the 1980s style card back design.”

The Beaming Kirk and Spock ReAction figures will ship next month. Each sells for $12.99 and can be pre-ordered here for Kirk, and here for Spock.

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UK Auction To Feature Spock Costume http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/uk-auction-to-feature-spock-costume/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/uk-auction-to-feature-spock-costume/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:08:35 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41226 TrekUKAuction073015

An auction to be held in the UK this autumn will feature a costume worn by Leonard Nimoy.

The Prop Store and Odeon Entertainment Memorabilia Live Auction will take place September 23.

The catalog for the auction isn’t available yet, but at least two Star Trek items will be auctioned.

A costume worn by Nimoy during the second season (blue shirt and black trousers) will be up for auction, and is expected to fetch up to £70,000.

Also in the auction will be a model starship used in The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine.

Other non-Trek items of interest include a Star Wars stormtrooper helmet, Arnold Schwarzenegger‘s jacket from Terminator 3, a Lord of the Rings Witch King’s dagger, and a set of claws worn by Hugh Jackman in X2:X-Men United.

In all, four-hundred-and-fifty items will be auctioned.

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Pine To Star In Wonder Woman http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pine-to-star-in-wonder-woman/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pine-to-star-in-wonder-woman/#comments Wed, 29 Jul 2015 17:57:20 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41222 PineWonderWoman052815

Back in May, TrekToday reported that Chris Pine was in negotiations to star in Warner Bros. Wonder Woman; today comes word that Pine has signed on for the role.

Pine will be playing Steve Trevor, Diana Prince’s love interest.

In the Wonder Woman comics, Trevor “was an intelligence officer in the United States Army during World War II whose plane crashed on Paradise Island, the isolated homeland of the Amazons. He was nursed back to health by the Amazon princess Diana, who fell in love with him and followed him when he returned to the outside world. There she became Wonder Woman (and also his co-worker, Diana Prince).”

Pine’s deal reportedly includes sequel options.

Written by Jason Fuchs, Wonder Woman will be directed by Patty Jenkins. Pine will be starring with Gal Gadot, who will take on the role of Diana Prince.

Wonder Woman will be released June 23, 2017.

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Pegg Teases Elba Character http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pegg-teases-elba-character/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pegg-teases-elba-character/#comments Wed, 29 Jul 2015 17:54:46 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41218 Elba072915

Simon Pegg spoke briefly about the character that Idris Elba will be playing in Star Trek Beyond.

The character that Elba will be playing will be unique, Pegg promised.

“It’s a really interesting, complex character,” said Pegg. “We shouldn’t expect to see anything like Benedict Cumberbatch‘s creepy genius Khan from Star Trek Into Darkness in Elba’s performance, however. His performance is all his own.”

There’s a good reason that Elba’s villain is different than Cumberbatch’s. “Only because it would be a retread,” said Pegg. “What we don’t want to do is have the same kind of villain with the same motivation.”

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View Poll Results: Who would have won ultimately?
UFP 11 55.00%
Klingons 3 15.00%
Stalemate 6 30.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 12 2013, 06:40 AM   #1
TheSubCommander
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Klingon-Federation War of 2372-3

During the Klingon-Federation War of 2372-73 the two sides fought a brief but bloody and bitter war. And it prompts me to make both some observations and ask some questions.

First an observation, as quickly as they were enemies, they were friends again. Now, it seems to me that was a little too clean and simple that the two sides got along as friction-free as they did, after the war, necessity for an alliance against the Dominion notwithstanding. Sure, one can possibly explain the Klingons were able to put aside any grudges after the war was over if for no other reason than out of respect for Starfleet holding its own, and the fact that in Redemption, the Klingons would fight each other by day in the Klingon Civil War, and drink together by night. War and battle was just business and nothing personal. But for Starfleet members, it was personal: a former ally turned on them and started attacking them. Did anyone else have a problem with that?


But most of all, imagine if you will, and taking all the other powers out of the equation (especially the Dominion, the war kept on going. Who would have won in that time frame? Would it have been a replay of Yesterday's Enterprise, with the Klingons projected to eventually defeat the Federation, or would it have been different?
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Old July 12 2013, 06:56 AM   #2
Anwar
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Re: Klingon-Federation War of 2372-3

The whole thing was a Dominion manipulation (Martok manipulating Gowron) which might've made Starfleet be more sympathetic.

After all, Dominion manipulation had almost turned Starfleet against itself with Leyton just a bit earlier.
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Old July 12 2013, 01:34 PM   #3
Shawnster
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Re: Klingon-Federation War of 2372-3

So, is this considered a separate war or a part of the Dominion War?
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Old July 12 2013, 03:40 PM   #4
TheSubCommander
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Re: Klingon-Federation War of 2372-3

Well, let's imagine so as to keep the Dominion out of this war, the Prophets blocked their entry to the Alpha quadrant. Romulans and all other powers remain neutral, leaving the Klingon Empire and UFP to slug it out. The Klingons discover that the Changeling-Martok is the impostor before the Federation did and remove him, but to prevent scandal and a possible second Klingon Civil War that removes him from office, Gowron covers it up and continues the war, anyway.

Last edited by TheSubCommander; July 12 2013 at 08:32 PM.
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Old July 12 2013, 05:28 PM   #5
Pavonis
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Re: Klingon-Federation War of 2372-3

In the "Yesterday's Enterprise" alternate timeline, the Klingons were kicking Starfleet's ass. That would suggest the Klingons are capable of defeating the UFP militarily. But what do the Klingons have that Starfleet doesn't? Who has more ships? Who controls more resources? What does it really take to win an interstellar war? What would the Klingons consider "victory conditions" versus what would the UFP consider victory?
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Old July 12 2013, 06:29 PM   #6
Anwar
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Re: Klingon-Federation War of 2372-3

Pavonis wrote: View Post
In the "Yesterday's Enterprise" alternate timeline, the Klingons were kicking Starfleet's ass. That would suggest the Klingons are capable of defeating the UFP militarily. But what do the Klingons have that Starfleet doesn't? Who has more ships? Who controls more resources? What does it really take to win an interstellar war? What would the Klingons consider "victory conditions" versus what would the UFP consider victory?
We don't know how well the Klingons were holding up on their end of the war, for all we know they were putting up a good front and were on the verge of collapse themselves and the Feds didn't know.
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Old July 12 2013, 06:39 PM   #7
Pavonis
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Re: Klingon-Federation War of 2372-3

^Possibly, but Picard was afraid Starfleet would collapse in 6 months or so. If the Klingons were only going to last 7 months themselves, they'd still win. But then what have they won? A hundred or more ruined worlds? A populace continuously straining to overthrow them? An empire so large that they couldn't hope to hold it without being contaminated by the cultures and ideals within it? Or would the Klingons consider it a good game, pat themselves on the back for being the victors, write some operas about the better battles, and leave the UFP to pick up the pieces of itself, with perhaps some tribute being sent to Kronos on a regular schedule?
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Old July 12 2013, 07:15 PM   #8
jmampilly
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Re: Klingon-Federation War of 2372-3

The TNG episodes seem to indicate the Klingon Empire is stronger, which doesn't seem to make much sense, given that the Federation's culture promotes technological advancement, and the unity of the different species within the Federation would give Starfleet resources that the Klingons, who subjugate species, wouldn't have.

DS9 seems to indicate that Starfleet would win. First of all, while the Klingons were attacking DS9, Worf says "The Empire is not strong enough to defeat both the Cardassians and the Federation." In another episode later on, Worf's brother says he opposed the war with the Federation because he believes that the Federation is powerful, and that the Klingon Empire may not necessarily win a war with the Federation.

All in all, DS9 gives us the indication that the Federation is more powerful, and since DS9 is the series that takes place farther in the future, I'd have to say that the Federation would win.
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Old July 12 2013, 07:39 PM   #9
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Re: Klingon-Federation War of 2372-3

The Federation might well defeat the Klingons, if they ever had the desire to do it. But they tend to favor diplomacy over combat, and wouldn't even wait to have the Klingons on their knees before trying to talk things over. Whereas the Klingons will go to war full-tilt and won't hold back the way the Federation always does. Even in the short war with the Klingons, how many resources did Starfleet really commit to the conflict? Did the top brass and the politicians really want to go to full-scale war with Klingons while the Dominion was waiting in the wings?

Consider that after fighting Starfleet for a few months, while fighting the Cardassians simultaneously, the Klingons still had enough resources to fight the Dominion for a couple of years, too. They must have some considerable resources for a monolithic empire, then. They managed to do what it took all the combined cultures of the UFP to do!

In the event of a long-term war between the Klingons and the UFP, would the UFP hold together? Or would some species withdraw from the UFP to avoid the wrath of the Klingons? When the Klingons fight the UFP, do they think of all the members equally, or are they targeting just the Humans and the Vulcans?

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Old July 12 2013, 08:56 PM   #10
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Re: Klingon-Federation War of 2372-3

Pavonis wrote: View Post
In the "Yesterday's Enterprise" alternate timeline, the Klingons were kicking Starfleet's ass. That would suggest the Klingons are capable of defeating the UFP militarily.
This was why I chose Klingons as the victor in such a conflict, although I do appear to be in the minority at present.
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Old July 12 2013, 09:06 PM   #11
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Re: Klingon-Federation War of 2372-3

Well we can't really use an alternate timeline as a baseline, as events probably played out differently. So perhaps in the YE alternate timeline due to fighting the Klingons for x years instead of exploring the UFP didn't sdiscover something which gave them the upper hand. Or failed to bring in a new member with some tech that helped. Did the Klingons co nquer the Romulans before attacking the UFP, as retaliation for attacking the NArendra III outpost?
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Old July 12 2013, 09:06 PM   #12
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Re: Klingon-Federation War of 2372-3

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
In the "Yesterday's Enterprise" alternate timeline, the Klingons were kicking Starfleet's ass. That would suggest the Klingons are capable of defeating the UFP militarily.
This was why I chose Klingons as the victor in such a conflict, although I do appear to be in the minority at present.
The problem is the lack of details. We know nothing of the actual war in "Yesterday's Enterprise."

In DS9, the Martok Changeling seemed to believe that the Federation would eventually get its act together and push the Klingons back into their own territory. Also, in "The Way of the Warrior," a task force of nine starships seemed to pose a serious threat to several dozen Klingon warships.
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Old July 12 2013, 09:09 PM   #13
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Re: Klingon-Federation War of 2372-3

Why would "inter-House" conflict weaken the KDF? If anything, competition between Houses for the most victories should increase the KDF's chances of victory over the enemy! Klingon Houses only fight each other when there's no one better to fight, and the Council leaders might encourage it so that the forces stay sharp during "peacetime".
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Old July 12 2013, 09:41 PM   #14
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Re: Klingon-Federation War of 2372-3

jmampilly wrote: View Post
137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
In the "Yesterday's Enterprise" alternate timeline, the Klingons were kicking Starfleet's ass. That would suggest the Klingons are capable of defeating the UFP militarily.
This was why I chose Klingons as the victor in such a conflict, although I do appear to be in the minority at present.
The problem is the lack of details. We know nothing of the actual war in "Yesterday's Enterprise."

In DS9, the Martok Changeling seemed to believe that the Federation would eventually get its act together and push the Klingons back into their own territory. Also, in "The Way of the Warrior," a task force of nine starships seemed to pose a serious threat to several dozen Klingon warships.
Plus the federation has had years to beef up its military power in response to the Borg and Dominion kicking their asses.
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Old July 12 2013, 10:29 PM   #15
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Re: Klingon-Federation War of 2372-3

Good points being made that Yesterday's Enterprise isn't necessarily the inevitable outcome. As stated, we don't know enough on how the Klingons were able to get the upper hand in the first place, or how their side was doing.

As of Way of the Warrior, it seems to me the Federation overall has superior tech, but Starfleet is geared more towards exploration and peacekeeping, whereas the Klingons train for war. So, I think the Klingons offset the tech advantage out of tenacity, making the odds even. The Federation ships probably have the edge one on one, but the Klingons often have a cavalry of sorts where BOPS travel in wolf packs to make up for that, and the Klingons do have a cloaks on most if not all warships, as well.

The Feds would implement their own cloak eventually, but the Klingons could potentially win key victories before the cloaks were pressed into service by the Fed. Then again, because even though the Feds would be using the cloaks against the Klingons, that would violate the Romulan-UFP treaty, and they may not want to risk angering the Romulans and possibly fight a 2 front war. So, it is possible they may abstain from using cloaks.


I therefore voted stalemate, but lean towards the Klingons slightly, though if they were able to pull out a victory, I would think it would be a Pyrrhic victory.
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