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Old July 8 2013, 12:10 PM   #16
Mytran
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

I'd also like to add my admiration for your work so far Shaw - and that the missing nacelle allows a very nice look at the shape of the pylon. I had no idea it was so organic and flowing.
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Old July 8 2013, 05:52 PM   #17
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Very fine work, sir. I can't wait to see her finished.
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Old July 9 2013, 06:38 AM   #18
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Holey Moley! It's Praetor! Long time no see!
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Old July 10 2013, 09:03 AM   #19
Shaw
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Thanks guys!

Mytran wrote: View Post
I'd also like to add my admiration for your work so far Shaw - and that the missing nacelle allows a very nice look at the shape of the pylon. I had no idea it was so organic and flowing.
Funny you should bring that up, because this is one of the biggest differences between this model and the studio model. And it is also one of the best illustrations of why building this model has been so helpful in my research.

Back in 2007 when I was first looking at the plans I assumed that the nacelle support pylons were flat. And it looks like Price/Loos made the same assumptions when building the studio model. But as I looked closer at the drawings Jefferies had made I saw the sorta wing like cross section I had overlooked before.

Similarly, I had thought (like Price/Loos) that the dorsal pylon edge had a bend in it just before reaching the phaser assembly (which was changed to the torpedo assembly for TMP). Actually, there isn't a bend at all, there is a thin sharp edge support bridging the gap. And this makes sense because the phaser assembly is actually only as thick as the widest part of the dorsal.

Because Jefferies wasn't easily accessible during the construction, and the fact that he packed a ton of information into a relatively small area (a significant amount of the one-to-one scale plans for the 5' 4" studio model were on a single 24" x 36" sheet), some of this stuff was missed. Still, the studio model was a very good representation of Jefferies final design. I had noticed during one set of progress images that I had caught an angle similar to that taken of the studio model under construction, and even though I've been favoring Jefferies' design, the two looked quite similar.


Here is a comparison I did of the Phase II dorsal (with the vertical edge) with the TMP dorsal.


Much of this I had missed when I was just looking at the plans. When I started having to figure out how to build what was on the page, these details started to pop out at me.

But yeah, I like the more organic feel of the cross section of Jefferies' dorsal and support pylons. It might not be something that would have been that noticeable (when compared to how the studio model was being built), but it shows how much thought Jefferies was putting into this design.



publiusr wrote: View Post
Now I seem to remember one of Jeffries TMP sketches showing what looked to be a small impulse deck at the aft base of the saucer support dorsal.

Now you are making a pho-torp tube that can be added on the front or left off at one's discretion. I wonder if you could test mount it on the back too.
Yeah, early on Jefferies tried out a number of ideas (including extending the base of the dorsal along the spine of the secondary hull and having the nacelle supports attach to it).

The problem is that the dorsal has the same wing like cross section as the nacelle support pylons (thick and rounded in the front narrow and squared off along the back) and the assembly also intersects the secondary hull, so getting it to just fit from the front has been a challenge.
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Old July 10 2013, 06:56 PM   #20
JES
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

I remember seeing Jefferies' sketch where the dorsal spine was extended to mount the nacelles pylons. A very interesting concept.

I see what you mean, by how Jefferies' concept Enterprise for Phase II had the neck have this aircraft wing-like shape when viewed from above, and how it is curved and slightly teardrops from fore to becoming flat edged at the aft.
But this sort of detail isn't surprising when you consider that Jefferies had the bottom of the saucer go from flat, to curving upwards, and then curving into a bowl shape that bulges from the bottom of the saucer section.
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Old July 11 2013, 06:06 PM   #21
137th Gebirg
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

^^^ I think the idea behind that was to have the saucer be its own aero-brake if it had to separate from the neck and make a forced landing on a planet with an atmosphere. Don't know if it would actually work, though. I somehow remember someone doing a simulator on the saucer design to see how it would react in an uncontrolled descent, and I think it started tumbling as the resistance that was supposed to build up under the saucer wound up getting trapped in small, uneven, convection currents, pushing subsequent air out of the way, making it fall almost as fast as if it didn't have the inner curve. That was a looooong time ago, though, and I'm probably mis-remembering some of it.
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Old July 12 2013, 02:58 PM   #22
Shaw
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

JES wrote: View Post
But this sort of detail isn't surprising when you consider that Jefferies had the bottom of the saucer go from flat, to curving upwards, and then curving into a bowl shape that bulges from the bottom of the saucer section.
The surprising aspect of all this was that Jefferies was doing all this in his spare time while working as art director for Little House on the Prairie. Many of the plans of the Phase II Enterprise were drawn in his hotel room in the evenings while working on location. And the attention to detail isn't just surprising when looking at this work in the context of the Phase II production (and his lack of a solid connection to it), what makes the work he did so interesting (to me) is that it acts as a Rosetta Stone to how he viewed the Enterprise during TOS.


I've pretty much finished the designing of the decals I'll be using on this model. Hopefully I'll be able to sent those off for printing in the near future.


The lettering is a trace of the original TOS decal sheet because it was also used on the 33 inch model which was available as a reference during Phase II (and wasn't lost until it was loan to Robert Abel and Associates during TMP).

Another cool (at least to me) aspect about this study model is that it is 1/500 scale (Jefferies' Phase II Enterprise was to be about 950 feet long), making it the same scale as my last 33 inch TOS Enterprise model. So it is quite interesting to have them sitting next to each other.
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Old July 22 2013, 06:11 PM   #23
JES
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Shaw wrote: View Post
JES wrote: View Post
But this sort of detail isn't surprising when you consider that Jefferies had the bottom of the saucer go from flat, to curving upwards, and then curving into a bowl shape that bulges from the bottom of the saucer section.
The surprising aspect of all this was that Jefferies was doing all this in his spare time while working as art director for Little House on the Prairie. Many of the plans of the Phase II Enterprise were drawn in his hotel room in the evenings while working on location. And the attention to detail isn't just surprising when looking at this work in the context of the Phase II production (and his lack of a solid connection to it), what makes the work he did so interesting (to me) is that it acts as a Rosetta Stone to how he viewed the Enterprise during TOS.
Maybe it might seem difficult under those circumstances, and indeed, perhaps it was indeed difficult, but think about it: Jefferies was an artist. And if he was anything like me, he loved art, and enjoyed sketching. And if he was really like me, he also enjoyed sketching flying vehicles. So all of those sketches, and all of the associated detail, probably came out pretty easily, even if it did consume a lot of Jefferies's spare time, at the time in question.

It is not surprising to me that he sketched in his spare time. In fact, if not for the fact I had the Internet, I'd probably be sketching right now, rather than looking at other peoples's sci-fi artwork, playing video games, or watching online videos, which are really the only other things I love more than sketching.
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Old July 26 2013, 11:43 PM   #24
publiusr
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Now I seem to remember an impulse deck Jefferies had about where the refit torp exhaust was located...
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Old August 26 2013, 12:40 AM   #25
Shaw
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

I finally got some time together to start in on the box I'll use for making the nacelle molds...


When I'm ready I'll fill the remaining gaps around the nacelle with clay and pour the rubber. When it sets I'll remove the center board (and clay) around the nacelle and pour the other side. Even though these are going to be used to make two different sides of each nacelle, I'd still like to get as straight a seam to rejoin the sides as possible.

This diagram shows how I plan on building the nacelles.

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Old August 26 2013, 06:45 AM   #26
Lego Thrawn
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Awesome... just awesome.
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Old August 26 2013, 05:16 PM   #27
Praetor
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

The project lives! Woot.
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Old August 26 2013, 10:23 PM   #28
Mysterion
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Since you asked for it, here it is (Andrew Probert's sketch for the testbed USS Yorktown).

Andrew said he had a colored version of it but would have to look for it, so hopefully this one will do for the moment.

Love that take on the uprated Constitution design! Have you seen these renderings of it: http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...31&postcount=2
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Old August 26 2013, 11:54 PM   #29
137th Gebirg
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Nice design, although kind of curious about the functional choice to place the nacelles below the primary hull. It's almost like they were planning on refitting this thing later as a dreadnaught.
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Old August 27 2013, 01:25 AM   #30
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

or the dreadnought was a dud but they learned the 2 nacelles worked better in this position
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