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Old July 11 2013, 01:17 AM   #436
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Looking good Donny. The only comment I have is that the rank braids seem too thick (or perhaps they need to be inset in more into the fabric?)

Keep it up!
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Old July 11 2013, 01:27 AM   #437
Savage Dragon
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

I have to say I really do like the realistic body types you used when creating the uniforms. Well done!
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Old July 11 2013, 03:50 AM   #438
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Donny wrote: View Post
Last shot before bed (I've been working on this all day! So much fun, but so time consuming)

I corrected the color of the tunic and added the Enterprise command patch and captain rank stripes. All other rank stripes have been sculpted, these are just the first ones I've gotten in place.
Looking great, Donny!

I think that to get all the details just right, you might need to tweak the seams a bit. You have the raglan sleeves, but you're missing the gussets down the side of the torso. (There's not just one seam, there are three.) The two panels on either side of the main seam can be removed as need and replaced with larger or smaller panels as needed for an actor's weight changes, without having to re-tailor a whole new tunic.

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Old July 11 2013, 04:00 AM   #439
Donny
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
Looking good Donny. The only comment I have is that the rank braids seem too thick (or perhaps they need to be inset in more into the fabric?)

Keep it up!
This is done for a reason. It will help add more depth when I convert these to lower poly meshes suitable for a real time 3d game engine.
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Old July 11 2013, 04:29 AM   #440
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
You have the raglan sleeves, but you're missing the gussets down the side of the torso. (There's not just one seam, there are three.) The two panels on either side of the main seam can be removed as need and replaced with larger or smaller panels as needed for an actor's weight changes, without having to re-tailor a whole new tunic.
Those clever bastards!

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Old July 11 2013, 04:55 AM   #441
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Shatner 's face is one that is hard to capture. Not sure why.
We noticed it decades ago in fanzine artwork. Something to do with the nose.
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Old July 11 2013, 09:53 AM   #442
Robert Comsol
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Donny wrote: View Post
Here's the updated Admiral rank stripes (with a human hand I just finished modelling).






Donny, I'm glad to have been of service to do my part to ensure that fact doesn't become myth (because of deteriorating reference material) and that myth (...) doesn't become fact.

Although I'm really not trying to find fault and be more nitpicky than necessary, please note the asymmetry of the admiral's braids:

The braid below the Commodore braid is only separated from the Commodore's braid by a space equalling the width of one braid. In contrast the braid above the Commodore braid appears to be separated by the width of two such braids.

I also noticed that you didn't consider "Fleet Captain" (e.g. Pike) as an in-between rank. Admittedly, we never saw such rank but if you wanted to bring the "lower" ranks to "full circle" I presume this rank would consist of three uninterrupted braids.

If I remember correctly, starting with "Commodore" we are on the flag officer level. At this level interrupted half-braids are somewhat inappropriate, I believe and therefore we do only see full braids in addition to the Commodore braid.

There is debate among fans whether Fitzpatrick (the only one where we saw an admiral's braid) is just an "admiral" or in fact the "Fleet Admiral" (the existence of this rank was established by a remark from Dr. McCoy in "Space Seed").

Now, just as there wasn't any real need to explicitly state "Engineering Deck 12" in either "Mudd's Women" or "The Enemy Within" (everyone knows that "Deck 12" cannot be a saucer deck and therefore has to be one in the engineering hull), I think it's not too farfetched to assume that Kirk understood that the fleet admiral was giving him a call when Uhura said "Admiral Fitzpatrick" and not just his usual sector commander (I'd expect that Nilz Baris would not have accepted just to talk to Kirk's sector commander, but insisted to speak to the fleet admiral himself. He was such a kind of guy...).

Therefore, I believe that the average "admiral" just wears one full braid above the Commodore braid while Fitzpatrick's extra braid below the Commodore braid identifies him as "fleet admiral".

Of course, this is entirely conjectural but I wanted to mention this option.

Bob
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Old July 11 2013, 02:31 PM   #443
137th Gebirg
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

I found this page to be a good resource, interweaving both canon and non-canon ranks together. Works pretty well, I think.
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Old July 11 2013, 03:00 PM   #444
Robert Comsol
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

@ 137th Gebirg

Interesting link. The one thing I have doubts about are the four stripes and its variations (where's a psychologist when you need one? ). I can instantly and subconsciously make a distinction between 1, 1 and a half, 2, 2 and a half and three braids. More than three braids, I have to start counting to make sure I make the proper distinction between 3 or 4. Would this make sense from a practical point of view?

And the braids of the fleet admiral from the link really go down. Is there a lower limit of braids or a sleeve "level" from where you go up (but not down)?

Too bad, that we don't know how simple or not people like Bob Justman (he's probably responsible for Fitzpatrick's admiral stripes) wanted this to be.

I found interesting what Wikipedia had on the rank of Commodore and naval ranks in general (looks like "Commodore" and "Rear Admiral" are one and the same?)

Bob

P.S. Look at Fitzpatrick's left sleeve!!! Is that just a reflection or one (or two) "vertical" braids within the Commodore braid?!?!
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Last edited by Robert Comsol; July 11 2013 at 03:21 PM.
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Old July 11 2013, 03:22 PM   #445
137th Gebirg
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Hmmm...never noticed that before.

I would personally be inclined to say that those are reflections of the super-bright studio lights from the highly reflective nature of that chromed braid strip. I'm still wondering if it's gold or silver, though. I somehow remember the Commodore middle area being silver.

I suspect that a thorough viewing of the "you're in good hands with Starfleet" tribble-bouncing blooper scene will determine this with certainty if that bright line is moving about with the studio lighting (reflection) vs. along with the rest of the sleeve (more braid).

Re: Commodore vs Rear Admiral, the US Navy did away with the title of Commodore a while back and replaced it with Rear Admiral Lower Half. The other Rear Admiral became Rear Admiral Upper Half. Never understood that Lower/Upper Half nonsense, other than to maybe make recently promoted Captains feel better about themselves once they got to the upper echelons. So, long and short of it, it's possible that Starfleet "in universe", did the same thing after a certain period of time, post-TOS.
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Old July 11 2013, 03:27 PM   #446
Mario de Monti
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
The one thing I have doubts about are the four stripes and its variations (where's a psychologist when you need one? ). I can instantly and subconsciously make a distinction between 1, 1 and a half, 2, 2 and a half and three braids. More than three braids, I have to start counting to make sure I make the proper distinction between 3 or 4. Would this make sense from a practical point of view?
AFAIK the human mind/eye can "instinctively" grasp up to 5 items, before you actually have to start counting.
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Old July 12 2013, 05:12 AM   #447
Donny
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
I was always under the impression that the big reflective chrome bar between the two inner stripes for Commodore and Admiral was silver colored, not gold.
Commodore Mendez: Gold
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x...part1hd024.jpg

Commodore Stone: Gold
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x...rtialhd019.jpg

Commodore Decker: Silver
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...hinehd0693.jpg

Commodore Stocker: Silver?
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...earshd1230.jpg

Commodore Wesley: Silver AND Gold??
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...uterhd0021.jpg

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...uterhd1159.jpg

-----
Mendez and Stone's "reflective bar" int the middle appears to be certainly gold. Decker's appears to be certainly silver. Commodore Stocker is a toss-up IMHO (leaning silver), and Bob Wesley's appear to be both silver AND gold, alternating between the two screencaps I provided. (Wesley's stripes, however, most likely look that way due to the reflection of light on the bar, and not the color of the bar itself) Thoughts?

Also, we can see in these shots that Mendez, Stone, and Decker all have the "early version" which has stripes of a different decorative pattern than we're used to seeing on all the other rank stripes. Personally, I'm glad they reverted back to the regular stripes for the "later version", which is also apparent on the photo which Robert Comsol provided of Admiral Fitzpatrick a few posts back.

EDIT:
Here's a version with the silver bar if it helps us better visualize it: (also, remember that these rank stripes look a little too "inflated" now, but will appear more flat against the sleeve once I convert these to low-poly meshes)
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Last edited by Donny; July 12 2013 at 05:23 AM.
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Old July 12 2013, 05:28 AM   #448
Donny
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Oh...and for the sake of completeness...

The Medical Insignia (Version 2, which was worn by Nurse Chapel during Season 3)



And the updated tunic, now with the correct number of seams on the sides, as pointed out by GSchnitzer.
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Last edited by Donny; July 12 2013 at 08:29 AM.
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Old July 12 2013, 02:40 PM   #449
137th Gebirg
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Wow...never realized there were so many uniform/rank braid variations, outside the most obvious things to notice (early shoulder zippers, spacing variance between rank braids over the seasons, etc). This project seems to have evolved considerably beyond a simple Connie walk-through. Most impressive, and very educational.
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Old July 12 2013, 06:31 PM   #450
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Donny wrote: View Post
Oh...and for the sake of completeness...

The Medical Insignia (Version 2, which was worn by Nurse Chapel during Season 3)



And the updated tunic, now with the correct number of seams on the sides, as pointed out by GSchnitzer.
Hey, Donny:

Just for the heck of it, can you make one of the earlier style of Red Cross patch--the one that's superimposed on the science symbol?
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