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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Sports and Fitness

Sports and Fitness It's football, not soccer.

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Old July 1 2013, 11:35 PM   #271
tighr
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Can we drop this?

I thought I ended the debate with my "Patriots: Fuck 'em" comment. It seemed to sum it up nicely, but yet we still got a dozen posts after that.
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Old July 1 2013, 11:50 PM   #272
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Yeah, let's end the "Patriots way" derail, or else I'm going to get cranky and start swinging the banhammer.
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Old July 2 2013, 01:49 AM   #273
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

No problem. I have no desire to resume that discussion I just thought it was a pretty good takedown of Ashley Fox's insane column on the ESPN website. She is pretty much making the leap that because he smoked pot at Florida that the Patriots should have somehow taken that as a sign that he would end being implicated in a homicide. Brilliant.

Marijuana: the gateway drug to murder. Where do they find these columnists? It's very indicative of the current trend of sports writers reeling in readers with an outrageous column title that in turn drives the story for page views. There is no way she actually believes what she said in that column.
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Old July 11 2013, 02:16 PM   #274
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Ugh, what a retard. You'd think it would be a good time to lay low if you're a NFL player, Patriots player in particular, and DEFINITELY if you're on probation and got a relatively light slap on the wrist for your previous misconduct, but nope. CB Alfonzo Dennard got popped for a DWI last night in Nebraska. Obvious probation violation, we'll see where this one goes. Idiot...

http://www.boston.com/sports/footbal...bjK/story.html
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Old July 11 2013, 03:56 PM   #275
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Scout101 wrote: View Post
CB Alfonzo Dennard got popped for a DWI last night in Nebraska. Obvious probation violation, we'll see where this one goes. Idiot...

http://www.boston.com/sports/footbal...bjK/story.html
They're best off cutting him immediately. He's not a role model nor example of "the Patriot way".


EDIT: I said that before reading the article. Then I saw this:

boston.com wrote:
If the Patriots were to cut Dennard, he would count just $43,386 against the salary cap this season.
Now I say they should definitely cut him.
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Old July 11 2013, 05:29 PM   #276
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Thought we were done with that media-created nonsense? Tough to claim high ground when like 3 posts ago you're ragging on people for not dropping it, but YOU are bringing it back up.

And if anyone is cut for not being a saint, only going to have enough players to field maybe 2 teams. Nice when they ARE perfect role models, but not what they're being paid for.

Why would you cut a cheap, productive player? At least wait to see how the situation shakes out, it's not like it was murder, when it's obvious you have to distance yourself, and he's not coming back anyway. If Dennard ends up having to do his 30 days in jail immediately, or gets a little more, why not wait it out, and restructure his contract to put his money more on the line for future mistakes?

Something like 40 arrests since the Superbowl, not all of them resulted in cutting the player (only a very few did, and mostly on marginal players anyway), dumb to have that kneejerk reaction.

Obviously terrible timing, but don't paint him out to be Hernandez's getaway driver just because it happened the same month...
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Old July 11 2013, 05:58 PM   #277
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Thought we were done with that media-created nonsense? Tough to claim high ground when like 3 posts ago you're ragging on people for not dropping it, but YOU are bringing it back up.
A) I was being tongue in cheek.

B) It makes good financial sense to cut him now rather than pay his actual salary for the season; the cap hit is inconsequential compared to his actual salary.

The Broncos are very likely going to administer severe discipline to the executives who recently got arrested for DUI, up to and including dismissal. I don't think that the league's personal conduct policy applies exclusively to Patriots players (which is why I thought the whole "Patriot's Way" topic from the last several pages was stupid), but rather to all employees of the NFL who are without a doubt public figures.
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Old July 11 2013, 07:01 PM   #278
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

B) not really. Yeah, very low cap hit, but also very low actual salary. Was a 7th round pick, pretty much playing for minimum, not hurting you. Not like he makes 10 million and you can avoid the cap hit by cutting him. It's mice nuts either way. And as you have several years left on that deal, and whatever punishment happens (if much of any at all) will surely be less than that, AND it wasn't like it was a violent crime, kinda short-sighted to cut him immediately.

Not to say it might not happen, just would be a rash move until we see how it shakes out. Hernandez was involved in a MURDER, which is why he was cut immediately. DWI is not exactly the same level. You'd look pretty retarded cutting him immediately if all he ends up with is having to do his (already sentenced) 30 days immediately, or more community service, whatever.

Executives and players aren't exactly an apples to apple comparison either, not a great comparison...
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Old July 11 2013, 11:57 PM   #279
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Hernandez was involved in a MURDER, which is why he was cut immediately. DWI is not exactly the same level. You'd look pretty retarded cutting him immediately if all he ends up with is having to do his (already sentenced) 30 days immediately, or more community service, whatever.
It's not just the DUI; he was found parked on a highway, straddling between two lanes. He was also on probation for a previous incident last year, where he PUNCHED A COP.

It's the middle of the offseason right now, so 30 days is no big deal. But the main issue at stake is if this a player/person who is prone to issues with law enforcement, and whether or not these issues could potentially lead to the player not being available for a key game during the season because they're spending the night in jail in the future.
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Old July 12 2013, 11:54 AM   #280
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

So they should make him unavailable immediately, just to avoid the chance that he might be unavailable in the future? Isn't that the definition of cutting off the nose to spite the face? He'd obviously be cut on the spot if he did it AGAIN later, so your scenario doesn't work anyway. In fact, but your logic, may as well cut Brady now, in case he gets hurt someday and isn't able to start a key game. Only way that makes sense is if you're the GM of another team...

Again, not saying he doesn't end up cut, just might as well have patience on this one and see where it goes. It's not like the other case, that they had to distance themselves from immediately. It's not like it's the beginning of the free agent period and there are other choices out there; everyone's pretty much on a team at this point. Since the replacement would come from what you already have anyway, don't see the rush to cut him. We'll see, just DUMB on his part. Never got the DWI arrests for the wealthy anyway; just get a driver/limo! Doesn't cost shit, and no arrests/accidents/loss of your job.
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Old July 12 2013, 03:07 PM   #281
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Scout101 wrote: View Post
So they should make him unavailable immediately, just to avoid the chance that he might be unavailable in the future? Isn't that the definition of cutting off the nose to spite the face? He'd obviously be cut on the spot if he did it AGAIN later, so your scenario doesn't work anyway. In fact, but your logic, may as well cut Brady now, in case he gets hurt someday and isn't able to start a key game. Only way that makes sense is if you're the GM of another team...
You are ridiculous.

If he is unavailable during the season, due to the way contracts in the NFL work, he is still owed his full season salary. If they cut him now, they don't pay him anything and only take the cap hit (which is $43k).
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Old July 12 2013, 03:36 PM   #282
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

I understand how the contract works, but since his entire salary is only like $500k/year, it's pretty firmly in the "who gives a shit" range for whether you have to take the salary cap hit. Since it would fall under 'detrimental conduct' policy anyway, you'd likely recover a little of that, plus not have to pay him going forward if you cut him, so the financial concern is really bupkis. If he was a $10 Mil/year player, you'd have a point. Since he's playing on a 4 year, $2 mil (total) contract, who cares?

Not in the top 5 reasons why you'd cut or keep him. He was a 7th round pick, and is being paid like one. Pats aren't up against the cap anyway.

Want to argue morality, or 'sending a message' or whatnot, you can at least discuss it. Want to argue the money, it just comes across as weak. May as well just rest your laurels on "I hate the Pats, so if it means they lose a useful player, they should do it immediately!" and stop trying to couch it in arguments that don't work...
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Old July 12 2013, 04:02 PM   #283
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Rough count, but there were something like 14 arrests for either DUI or drug possession in the NFL since the Superbowl, only a couple of those led to player being cut, and usually because the player sucked and was already on the bubble anyway. So this was hardly an aggregious or shocking event (unlike a murder arrest) which forces a quick and hasty decision.

Hell, of the 35-40 arrests since the Superbowl (sadly, only the 5 months or so), the rest were on weapons charges or assault/violence related issues. Surely I can go back through this thread and see you advocating for cutting those guys for both conduct and cap reasons, right? Why so drilled-in on the Pats players?

Your location just says California, which team do you follow? We could talk about the 49ers' Ahmad Brooks assaulting a teammate with a beer bottle (THAT would be a big cap hit, and is a move obvious on-field issue), or could talk about Al Netter, the practice squad player who got popped for DUI and is still on the roster fighting for a spot.

Still conflicting reports about whether the Chargers' Ryan Mathews was involved in a recent bar fight. No good recent examples, but Vincent Jackson got a big DUI case a couple years ago and got less than a slap on the wrist.

Could go in-depth on the Raiders, but we all know their deal. As an easy example, though Darrius Heyward-Bey got a DUI last year, nothing done there.

Anyway, just curious as to why you're so up in arms on this one, and so worried about the 450k difference in salary cap on a team that doesn't have cap issues...
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Old July 12 2013, 04:45 PM   #284
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Surely I can go back through this thread and see you advocating for cutting those guys for both conduct and cap reasons, right?

Your location just says California, which team do you follow?

Anyway, just curious as to why you're so up in arms on this one, and so worried about the 450k difference in salary cap on a team that doesn't have cap issues...
I'm from Indiana, and I am a Colts fan.

You probably could find examples of me advocating that assholes get cut from the NFL. It's an entertainment league, and I'm not entertained by assholes. Jamarcus Russel. Dez Bryant. Justin Blackmon. Dante Stallworth. I'm an Alabama fan on the college side (went to middle school/high school there), and I'll even say that Rolondo McClain was an idiot and deserved what he got.

On the flipside, you could probably also find examples of me advocating for the reinstatement of Michael Vick, because he did his time and has been rehabilitated and released.

It's not my fault the Pats have had the two most recent high profile incidents. I even brought up in my previous post about the Broncos executives (two of them! and I like the Broncos!) arrested for DUI, yet apparently you feel that I primarily only attack the Patriots.

Admittedly, I do hate the Patriots and wish all the ill-will in the world towards them.

I'm not "up in arms", in fact you're the one acting so emotional on this issue. Honestly, I'm bored arguing with you on this so I'll let you fly off the hook against me one more time and I won't reply.
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Old July 12 2013, 05:06 PM   #285
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Rough count, but there were something like 14 arrests for either DUI or drug possession in the NFL since the Superbowl, only a couple of those led to player being cut, and usually because the player sucked and was already on the bubble anyway. So this was hardly an aggregious or shocking event (unlike a murder arrest) which forces a quick and hasty decision.

Hell, of the 35-40 arrests since the Superbowl (sadly, only the 5 months or so), the rest were on weapons charges or assault/violence related issues. Surely I can go back through this thread and see you advocating for cutting those guys for both conduct and cap reasons, right? Why so drilled-in on the Pats players?

Your location just says California, which team do you follow? We could talk about the 49ers' Ahmad Brooks assaulting a teammate with a beer bottle (THAT would be a big cap hit, and is a move obvious on-field issue), or could talk about Al Netter, the practice squad player who got popped for DUI and is still on the roster fighting for a spot.

Still conflicting reports about whether the Chargers' Ryan Mathews was involved in a recent bar fight. No good recent examples, but Vincent Jackson got a big DUI case a couple years ago and got less than a slap on the wrist.

Could go in-depth on the Raiders, but we all know their deal. As an easy example, though Darrius Heyward-Bey got a DUI last year, nothing done there.

Anyway, just curious as to why you're so up in arms on this one, and so worried about the 450k difference in salary cap on a team that doesn't have cap issues...

That's a good run down and it really shows parallels to business practices outside of the sports community as well. Main point being that you should try to make yourself irreplaceable. If you aren't performing then the organization is less likely to give you a second chance for off the field issues. Expecting guys like Dez Bryant, Justin Blackmon, etc. to get cut for their issues as tighr suggests is totally unrealistic.
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