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Old July 11 2013, 04:02 AM   #181
Ancient Mariner
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
I'm not one for confusing the art and artist - Picasso was a misogynistic prick, but that doesn't make his paintings bad. Card's not exactly going to use the money he makes from Ender's Game to go on any anti-gay rights campaigns, so I don't see the point of a boycott based on his personal opinions about homosexuality. If you only partook of art created by people whose every single thought and opinion you agreed with, we'd all have a very limited selection of art to chose from.
I've been thinking about this a bit ... and ... well, I don't want to be overly flippant, but I think it's easier to disassociate artist from art when the artist is dead. For starters, appreciating a Picasso painting is different than purchasing a Card book or a ticket to a movie based on one of his books. Also, any money spent to appreciate a Picasso (say, at the Met), isn't going to subsidize his life and any objectionable things he might subsequently do with that subsidy. Perhaps once Card has moved on, and provided his estate isn't bequeathed to groups based on his current views, I think more people will be willing to at least give his work a chance - based on its inherent merits, and not on the detriments of its artist.
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Old July 11 2013, 04:21 AM   #182
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
Card's not exactly going to use the money he makes from Ender's Game to go on any anti-gay rights campaigns...
I'm curious, how did you arrive at that conclusion?
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Old July 11 2013, 04:42 AM   #183
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Has Card already been paid for the rights to his work?

If so, boycotting the film does nothing to him and only "hurts" others that may not even share his views.
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Old July 11 2013, 04:46 AM   #184
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

M'rk, son of Mogh wrote: View Post
Has Card already been paid for the rights to his work?

If so, boycotting the film does nothing to him and only "hurts" others that may not even share his views.
As I mentioned above, a successful film still gives legitimacy to his work - and can drive further sales of his book. So in a way, paying for a ticket to the film, helping it succeed, increases the chances for Card to benefit financially, even if he doesn't have a percentage stake in the film.
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Old July 11 2013, 04:52 AM   #185
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

What about the people that worked on the film that actually do have a stake in the success of this film?
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Old July 11 2013, 04:52 AM   #186
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Presumably, everyone who worked on the film has already been paid. Anyone important enough to be compensated by points on the gross won't be hurt if the movie bombs. If it bombs, though, the major studios might think twice before adapting another one of Card's novels to the screen.

Considering the organizations Card openly supports, I'd say this is a good thing. Others might disagree.

On the merits of the book, I enjoyed it when I was in middle school (it probably helped that I was ignorant of the bile Card regularly spews about gay people). Like many things I liked when I was 12 and 13, however, it's probably not as good as I remember. Card's public views haven't exactly sped up my interest in revisiting it, either.
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Old July 11 2013, 04:57 AM   #187
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Wow. I've lost a lot of respect for Card as a person.

I'm still going to see "Ender's Game."
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Old July 11 2013, 04:58 AM   #188
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

M'rk, son of Mogh wrote: View Post
What about the people that worked on the film that actually do have a stake in the success of this film?
Ah, the whole Death Star II workers gambit. Well played.

Or, perhaps, the only people whose financial stake in the film are the ones who are (should have been) aware of Card's activism. I'm pretty sure the Key Grip has already been paid for the work, as well as just about everyone in the production who didn't provide some financial investment.
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Old July 11 2013, 04:59 AM   #189
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

^^^
A box office bomb can ruin careers after as well. Actors, directors, and so on.

Again, if it's a bad movie, that's one thing. But to condemn everyone else for "crimes" not committed by them is something else entirely. Movies are as collaborative a medium as the word can allow.
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Old July 11 2013, 05:03 AM   #190
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

M'rk, son of Mogh wrote: View Post
^^^
A box office bomb can ruin careers after as well. Actors, directors, and so on.

Again, if it's a bad movie, that's one thing. But to condemn everyone else for "crimes" not committed by them is something else entirely. Movies are as collaborative a medium as the word can allow.
As I've said before, the film's performance will, more than likely, be due to the skill of its filmmakers - director, actors, editor, etc., than due to how people feel about Card. But even so, they all signed on, willingly, to the project. If they didn't know beforehand that Card's positions were objectionable, that's on them.
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Old July 11 2013, 05:06 AM   #191
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Samuel Walters wrote: View Post
If they didn't know beforehand that Card's positions were objectionable, that's on them.
Doing a job professionally while also not researching the political and religious beliefs of someone you probably aren't even interacting with is somehow their fault?

You wouldn't know to look for this unless you were told to look for this. If not for these sites (of which I'm sure not many in Hollywood post in), I'm sure many here didn't even know about all of the controversy.
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Old July 11 2013, 05:10 AM   #192
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

M'rk, son of Mogh wrote: View Post
^^^
A box office bomb can ruin careers after as well. Actors, directors, and so on.

Again, if it's a bad movie, that's one thing. But to condemn everyone else for "crimes" not committed by them is something else entirely. Movies are as collaborative a medium as the word can allow.
Guys like Ford and Kingsley will be fine. So will the young actors involved. Wood directed X-Men Origins: Wolverine. If that didn't kill his career, he might be bullet proof. Card's listed as a producer on IMDB. Though that might be a courtesy.
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Old July 11 2013, 05:14 AM   #193
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

M'rk, son of Mogh wrote: View Post
Doing a job professionally while also not researching the political and religious beliefs of someone you probably aren't even interacting with is somehow their fault?

You wouldn't know to look for this unless you were told to look for this. If not for these sites (of which I'm sure not many in Hollywood post in), I'm sure many here didn't even know about all of the controversy.
Again, anyone with a financial stake in the success of this film has the obligation to do their due diligence before signing on. Everyone else, from lighting to cinematography, has already been paid for their efforts. Aside from Card, if the film bombs, and in particular if it bombs because of a boycott*, that will only impact a very select few people - the ones who are obligated to understand what they are investing in.

The only careers at stake are those of the director and producers (and even then, one bomb is rarely the kiss of death). I'm pretty sure Harrison Ford and Asa Butterfield will survive should the film underperform.

* And once more, the most likely reason the film might underperform will be because it's not a good film, and not because people object to Card's politics and actions.
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Old July 11 2013, 05:19 AM   #194
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

IndyJones wrote: View Post
Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
Card's not exactly going to use the money he makes from Ender's Game to go on any anti-gay rights campaigns...
I'm curious, how did you arrive at that conclusion?
In fact, I believe Card has financed anti-gay groups.

Edit: As of 2009, Card is on the board of the National Organization for Marriage. Fair bet that he's sending money to anti-gay causes.
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Old July 11 2013, 05:24 AM   #195
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
I'm not one for confusing the art and artist - Picasso was a misogynistic prick, but that doesn't make his paintings bad. Card's not exactly going to use the money he makes from Ender's Game to go on any anti-gay rights campaigns, so I don't see the point of a boycott based on his personal opinions about homosexuality.
You don't think he hasn't contributed to National Organization for Marriage, an anti gay marriage organization, the same organization he sits on the board of? Whatever money he HAS contributed came from the money he's earned... so... yeah, he will go on an anti-gay rights campaign.


If you only partook of art created by people whose every single thought and opinion you agreed with, we'd all have a very limited selection of art to chose from.

I'm getting a little bored of this point. It keeps coming up over and over. I'm not doing a check list of artists to see that they agree with me 100% on things. But, when I see that they are ACTIVELY campaigning against equal rights for my friends and family, fuck that. I see no reason why I should continue to contribute money to that art.

If I weed out the bigots from the art that I see and read and hear, there still will be a WHOLE lot of art to see and read and hear.
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