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Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

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Old July 10 2013, 03:29 PM   #121
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Personally I would like to say that all his books should be banned, the film should be destroyed, and he should be legally prevented from ever publishing again. Because that is the only way half the bullshit strawman arguments in this thread will ever be valid or relevant.
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Old July 10 2013, 03:30 PM   #122
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

YJAGG wrote:
never read it ( I know shame on me) did read the sumary and to me honest - 20 plus years later - meh

unless it's a crappy movie and they want all the hardcore right wingers to come and support it, by alienating gays... but I do marvel at the irony of intolerance for the intolerent
Wow, what a thoughtful contribution to the discussion.

Sindatur wrote: View Post
So, yes, he has the right to speak, but, not the right to be heard by those offended by what he says.
I agree. I'm a fan of his and even I don't particularly care to hear his views on where men can or can't stick their willies, nor do I understand why he devotes such time to a cause. If he at least wrote his intolerance as a well-written allegorical sci-fi story, I'd be more likely see pay attention.

Pingfah wrote: View Post
Personally I would like to say that all his books should be banned, the film should be destroyed, and he should be legally prevented from ever publishing again. Because that is the only way half the bullshit strawman arguments in this thread will ever be valid or relevant.
Alright.
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Old July 10 2013, 03:36 PM   #123
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
If I wanted to boycott everything I watch or read written by someone I disagreed with politically I'd have to give up everything but the bible and the Left Behind series.


Admiral2 wrote: View Post
(Let's face it, sci-fi and fantasy writing is dominated by leftists.)
Horrendous generalities, but here it is: Sci-fi, being principally interested in understanding the present to speculate about the future, is intrinsically progressive (even tho there is a strong libertarian bend in many contemporary sci-fi works). Fantasy, on the other hand, being about an imaginary past with a strong emphasis on traditional values, is habitually conservative.
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Old July 10 2013, 03:39 PM   #124
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Well, whatever you think of the man, he was likely pressured by the studio to say something to try to mitigate the damage his views could do to the film.
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Old July 10 2013, 03:41 PM   #125
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Horrendous generalities, but here it is: Sci-fi, being principally interested in understanding the present to speculate about the future, is intrinsically progressive (even tho there is a strong libertarian bend in many contemporary sci-fi works). Fantasy, on the other hand, being about an imaginary past with a strong emphasis on traditional values, is habitually conservative.
To further generalise, the fantasy genre is less political in nature than science-fiction. Tolkien wasn't trying to make any social commentary or critique when he wrote The Lord of the Rings, whereas Frank Herbert certainly was when he made the closest thing to a sci-fi equivalent, Dune.
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Old July 10 2013, 03:47 PM   #126
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

DalekJim wrote: View Post
iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Horrendous generalities, but here it is: Sci-fi, being principally interested in understanding the present to speculate about the future, is intrinsically progressive (even tho there is a strong libertarian bend in many contemporary sci-fi works). Fantasy, on the other hand, being about an imaginary past with a strong emphasis on traditional values, is habitually conservative.
To further generalise, the fantasy genre is less political in nature than science-fiction. Tolkien wasn't trying to make any social commentary or critique when he wrote The Lord of the Rings, whereas Frank Herbert certainly was when he made the closest thing to a sci-fi equivalent, Dune.
Sure, but how about if you swap out Tolkein with Narnia? We can cherry pick authors to make it sway whichever way we want.
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Old July 10 2013, 03:51 PM   #127
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Sure, but how about if you swap out Tolkein with Narnia? We can cherry pick authors to make it sway whichever way we want.
I'm a huge admirer of both Tolkien and Lewis, neither were politically charged writers. Sci-fi literature is frequently about the human condition or social critique in a way the fantasy genre isn't usually. It's one of the things I find preferable about fantasy, it works better as escapism. It's harder to escape in to a book if you find it makes you think about what's going in in your own country.
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Old July 10 2013, 03:54 PM   #128
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
Sure, but how about if you swap out Tolkein with Narnia? We can cherry pick authors to make it sway whichever way we want.
I'm a huge admirer of both Tolkien and Lewis, neither were politically charged writers. Sci-fi literature is frequently about the human condition or social critique in a way the fantasy genre isn't usually. It's one of the things I find preferable about fantasy, it works better as escapism. It's harder to escape in to a book if you find it makes you think about what's going in in your own country.
Narnia is totally pushing a Religious Agenda in a Political way?
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Old July 10 2013, 03:58 PM   #129
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Narnia is totally pushing a Religious Agenda in a Political way?
Broadly, in the same way Tolkien's work broadly pushes an anti-industrial agenda in a political way. It's far less overt than science-fiction though, and they work primarily as adventure escapism. Tolkien and Lewis were not allegorical writers, and sci-fi is a genre that works heavy with allegory.
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Old July 10 2013, 04:10 PM   #130
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Narnia is totally pushing a Religious Agenda in a Political way?
Not in a political way, but I found the religious subtext of the Narnia books rendered reading them more of a nuisance than a pleasure. Lewis was not exactly the theological deep thinker that his fans took him for.
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Old July 10 2013, 04:22 PM   #131
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

The amount of absolute hatred for Orson Scott Card astonishes me. This is the response to hatred? Greater hatred? I have rarely seen such a vicious crusade against one man.
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Old July 10 2013, 04:41 PM   #132
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

TemporalFlux wrote: View Post
The amount of absolute hatred for Orson Scott Card astonishes me. This is the response to hatred? Greater hatred? I have rarely seen such a vicious crusade against one man.
The amount of absolute hatred from Orson Scott Card astonishes me. The response to his hatred? Not giving him any of my money. I have rarely seen such a vicious crusade by one man against a minority group.
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Old July 10 2013, 04:42 PM   #133
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Lewis [was] not [an] allegorical writer
The hell he wasn't. He unarguably wrote in allegorical terms (whatever he says himself: he apparently thought he was too good for allegory.)
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Old July 10 2013, 04:46 PM   #134
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

junxon wrote: View Post
side 1: i don't want to see this movie because i don't want to fund OSC's homophobia.

side 2: not going to see this film makes you 'intolerant of bigotry' and also somehow this is censorship

which side are you?

also, for this You Lose:

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I think somebody should be allowed to openly bash gay folks
in other words ''i think somebody should be allowed to persecute a minority''

speech is not persecution. I am also extremely uncomfortable with laws against "hate speech." Well-intentioned as they may be, putting government in the role of censor is wrong. Also, "offense" is so subjective that they become hard to enforce.
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Old July 10 2013, 05:19 PM   #135
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

sonak wrote: View Post

speech is not persecution. I am also extremely uncomfortable with laws against "hate speech." Well-intentioned as they may be, putting government in the role of censor is wrong. Also, "offense" is so subjective that they become hard to enforce.
I agree with this as well. There have been several controversial examples in Canada over the years of heavy handedness in applying the law. I apparently missed the point of several posts and was not clear what I was responding to.

Last edited by theenglish; July 10 2013 at 08:11 PM.
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