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Old July 10 2013, 12:35 AM   #31
Santa Kang
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Or maybe people are genuinely offended by things and ideas they don't like.
They're offended by ideas that aren't even in the story of Ender's Game. My favourite science-fiction author is Robert A. Heinlein and plenty of liberals hate his novels for the politics they (often arguably!) advocate. That at least on some level makes sense to me, as they don't wanna be upset by the different ideas presented.
Well in Card's case it's a protest again the man's social/religious ideas, one he's publicly stated, rather than the ideas presented in his books. Has any one said Ender's Game is homophobic and that's why they are boycotting. Sounds like you've jumped to a conclusion here.

I've enjoyed both the Ender books and the Alvin books. They are among my favorites. I also like a lot of Heinlein's work, even the ones that wear their politics on their sleeves. More so in my twenties than now. Maturity might be a factor there. Also some of the idea are so farout you can't take them too seriously.

This strikes me as absurd though. Issues like homosexuality and abortion are such down-the-line issues that if you were to boycott films produced by those you disagreed with on these issues, you wouldn't watch any big Hollywood movies.
I don't know enough about various filmmaker's views on these issues to make an impact on my viewing habits. They have wisely kept them under wraps.
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Old July 10 2013, 12:36 AM   #32
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I'm gonna regret this but... please explain?
it's a colloquial term for sodomy.

I find it funny you take the moral highground, while openly admitting you're a thief.
I call it political activism.
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Old July 10 2013, 12:41 AM   #33
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Orson Scott Card wrote:
Now it will be interesting to see whether the victorious proponents of gay marriage will show tolerance toward those who disagreed with them when the issue was still in dispute.
Unbelievable. I really hope this stupid movie bombs hard and I certainly will not show tolerance towards him, how dare he even use that word? The problem is not "the issue" that was in dispute, the problem is his mindset and his intolerance, he's a raging homophobe, that hasn't changed at all.

What does he expect me to say? "Hey Card, you hate the way I am but you kinda lost on this one issue so please take my money!" Yeah, not gonna happen.
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Old July 10 2013, 12:52 AM   #34
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Yminale wrote: View Post
Call me a Leftist Marxist but Art in some sense political and I don't find films from people I outright disagree with enjoyable (*cough* Michael Bay *cough*)
I think you're limiting yourself for no real reason. I can enjoy films from Russian communist filmmakers or even a Nazi director like Leni Reifenstahl. I can listen to Wagner, Burzum, etc.

I worry sometimes modern liberalism makes a virtue of being offended. I assure you that Ender's Game has nothing to do with homosexuality.
I am reminded of Fahrenheit 451. Books became illegal not because of an evil dictator but because they offended people. Part of living in a democracy means that we are all entitled to our opinions and are free to express them.

I remember when Noam Chomsky wrote a forward (afterward?) to a book by an author who claimed the holocaust did not happen. Chomsky's belief was that if this book was censored because of people's outrage than our society would be no better off than Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia. Hitler and Stalin, he says, were in favor of free speech as long as they agreed with it.

Now Ender's Game really has nothing to do with Card's belief system, and the movie probably less so. The "boycott" will only draw attention to the film and serve as free advertising.

That said, anyone is free to purchase a ticket or not but I hope the boycott does not turn into something similar to the Westboro church's protests. To anyone planning to demonstrate outside theaters, I would urge you to hold your personal integrity and conduct high. Reducing yourself to shouting slurs and insults puts you on an even plane with those your are protesting against.
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Old July 10 2013, 01:01 AM   #35
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Yminale wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
I'm gonna regret this but... please explain?
it's a colloquial term for sodomy.
Well in the book they look like bugs and in the sequels they become more sympathetic with Ender helping them in various ways.
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Old July 10 2013, 01:01 AM   #36
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Yminale wrote: View Post
You do know that the "evil" aliens are called "Buggers"
The same aliens who are revealed at the end to be unfairly treated and persecuted because of their very nature?

Yminale wrote: View Post
What?! You didn't get that the Autons represented Communist infiltration/third column using Western consumerism as a cover to secretly promote Socialist revolutions. That the Doctor represented the British aristocracy (he is a Time LORD) and him working with Lethridge-Stewart signified the military-industrial complex. Man what were you watching
You jest but like that's what the blog is actually like. There's a shot in Spearhead where the black hand of one of the factory workers picks up the head of a white doll, and said shot was proclaimed as the most politically charged image in Doctor Who.
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Old July 10 2013, 01:05 AM   #37
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

I don't want the movie to fail, because there are too many good people in it, and too many hard working people who were just doing their jobs making what the felt was a quality production. I will likely see the movie once it's out to Redbox. That's $1.28. I can live with that, and if people can go see the movie in theaters, and enjoy it, and they paid their $8-$15, I can live with that, too. Less money, more money; it doesn't change his viewpoint, but it can cause a lot of benefit or harm towards everyone else.
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Old July 10 2013, 01:08 AM   #38
DalekJim
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Yminale wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
I'm gonna regret this but... please explain?
it's a colloquial term for sodomy.


That is seriously reaching. The aliens just.. look like bugs. There's no homophobic agenda there at all.

Ender's Game was my most treasured book when I was a kid. It got me obsessed with science-fiction literature and was what led me to discover Frank Herbert, Isaac Asimov, Robert A Heinlein, Arthur C Clarke and eventually decide to become a writer myself. I owe Orson Scott Card so much, so it's disappointing to see him claim weird shit like gay rights weren't an issue in the 80s.

However, the idea that future generations will view Ender's Game as a homophobic parable because of liberal agenda and misunderstanding is deeply tragic to me. It's obscene.

As for the film, I'm actually worried they've dumbed it down and made it an action movie but I'll reserve judgement until I see it.
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Old July 10 2013, 01:11 AM   #39
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

I was planning on ignoring his movie not boycotting it.
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Old July 10 2013, 01:34 AM   #40
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

theenglish wrote: View Post
I am reminded of Fahrenheit 451. Books became illegal not because of an evil dictator but because they offended people. Part of living in a democracy means that we are all entitled to our opinions and are free to express them.
You do realize that the people calling for the boycott are also entitled to their opinions and free to express them, right? It's a two-way street, and doesn't become censorship just because you agree with one side more than the other.

Also, no one has called for the government to outlaw his books or even his hateful online and magazine writing, so the comparison to the mass censorship of Fahrenheit 451 kind of falls flat.

That said, anyone is free to purchase a ticket or not but I hope the boycott does not turn into something similar to the Westboro church's protests. To anyone planning to demonstrate outside theaters, I would urge you to hold your personal integrity and conduct high. Reducing yourself to shouting slurs and insults puts you on an even plane with those your are protesting against.
Because pro-gay rights supporters typically use the kind of rhetoric and tactics that Westboro does? I don't recall a lot of gay protests at the funerals of straight people or signs that say "God Hates Breeders," so what exactly is your basis for assuming that this might be an issue?

Scott has called for violent revolution against the government if it legalizes gay marriage nationwide and has advocated for the continuation of laws that put homosexuals in jail just for having sex with their loved ones. In what fairytale land have gays in large numbers advocated for anything that makes them even remotely on par with that type of hateful rhetoric?

"Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn."

http://www.examiner.com/article/shou...r-gay-marriage

"Laws against homosexual behavior should remain on the books, not to be indiscriminately enforced against anyone who happens to be caught violating them, but to be used when necessary to send a clear message that those who flagrantly violate society's regulation of sexual behavior cannot be permitted to remain as acceptable, equal citizens within that society."

http://atheism.about.com/b/2004/01/0...l-behavior.htm
You want to go see the movie? Fine. You don't agree with the boycott? Fine. But don't for a moment suggest that the two sides are even close to being just as bad as the other, because that's high order bullshit.
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Old July 10 2013, 01:38 AM   #41
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

theenglish wrote: View Post
I remember when Noam Chomsky wrote a forward (afterward?) to a book by an author who claimed the holocaust did not happen. Chomsky's belief was that if this book was censored because of people's outrage than our society would be no better off than Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia. Hitler and Stalin, he says, were in favor of free speech as long as they agreed with it.
I remember the late, great Christopher Hitchens doing something similar by defending David Irving's right to publish holocaust denial books.
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Old July 10 2013, 01:42 AM   #42
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

DalekJim wrote: View Post
theenglish wrote: View Post
I remember when Noam Chomsky wrote a forward (afterward?) to a book by an author who claimed the holocaust did not happen. Chomsky's belief was that if this book was censored because of people's outrage than our society would be no better off than Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia. Hitler and Stalin, he says, were in favor of free speech as long as they agreed with it.
I remember the late, great Christopher Hitchens doing something similar by defending David Irving's right to publish holocaust denial books.
And I remember Locutus saying "What does this have to do with anything anyone is saying in the boycott or the thread, because no one is calling for his book, movie, or other writings to be made illegal?" People just think Card is an anus tart, not that he should be silenced by the government.
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Old July 10 2013, 01:48 AM   #43
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

[QUOTE=Locutus of Bored;8357782]
theenglish wrote: View Post
You want to go see the movie? Fine. You don't agree with the boycott? Fine. But don't for a moment suggest that the two sides are even close to being just as bad as the other, because that's high order bullshit.
There is already a number of comments on this very thread that are taking a hardline stance. I am just trying to remind people that thoughtful debate is a right--so any protests should be kept on the high road or the protesters fall into the same trap as the people they are protesting against. In no way am I defending Card's beliefs nor people's right to assemble peacefully.
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Old July 10 2013, 01:50 AM   #44
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
And I remember Locutus saying "What does this have to do with anything anyone is saying in the boycott or the thread, because no one is calling for his book, movie, or other writings to be made illegal?" People just think Card is an anus tart, not that he should be silenced by the government.
Already we've seen at least one person in this thread give the uninformed view that Ender's Game is a homophobic novel. I don't think falsities like that should be perpetuated.
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Old July 10 2013, 01:58 AM   #45
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

You two were talking about making books illegal. NO ONE brought that up. It's a strawman argument.
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