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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old July 5 2013, 01:29 AM   #16
Maurice
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Re: New Richard Taylor TMP VFX interview

Joe_Atari wrote: View Post
Cool BBTS pic; I'm a big fan of both movies and I never would've noticed that. Wonder how that came to be since it's just the pattern and not the actual pieces?
Honestly, it looks like those "tiles" are carpeting or maybe soundproofing tiles, which I could see being installed on ceilings in the engine room to deaden echoes. My guess is they just bought them someplace and they weren't designed per se.

I just posted the following comment on the article at the site:

Maurice says:
July 4, 2013 at 5:23 PM
Interesting piece, even if Mr. Taylor takes too much credit for things that were clearly the work of Mr. Probert and others.

While, personally, I’d rather see a set like the Rec Deck designed so it fit neatly and realistically into the hull as Andy Probert suggests, in Hal’s defense, the vast majority of filmgoers in fact wouldn’t notice if a set would actually fit into the ship, so he was right in that (99% of) filmgoers don’t go in with a slide rule. The original Trek shuttle interior in the series wouldn’t fit into the mockup, nor the Millenium Falcon interiors into the full size setpieces, nor the Seaview sets into that sub, nor even Archie Bunker’s house interiors fit into the exterior they showed. It’s part and parcel with film. I’m not saying it wouldn’t be nicer if it all fit, but that majority of filmgoers don’t notice or care, even if a small minority of vocal fans do.

As I recall, according to interviews with Wise the Officer’s Lounge ended up as it did because there was no money left in the set budget to build a wholly new room, so they re-used the windows from the Rec Deck that had already been built and struck. The fact that the walls to Nogura’s office for the TV movie got repurposed as the walls for the cargo bay, and the ceiling tiles ripped down from the engine room became the stone walks on Vulcan lends credence to the idea that the set money was tight and they were making due with what they could (too bad they didn’t decide to scrap the spacewalk earlier, they could have saved all that money that was wasted building those V’ger trench sets).
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Last edited by Maurice; July 5 2013 at 01:51 AM.
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Old July 5 2013, 03:10 PM   #17
trevanian
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Re: New Richard Taylor TMP VFX interview

MAKING OF TMP shows what they spent on sets after it became Wise's feature, and those numbers definitely reflect a 'save where you can' attitude, as well as the 'sky's the limit' perception when you look at trench and memory wall numbers, as well as the klingon bridge (though the money was well spent there, no question.)

I've never understood how the production could have shot the officer's lounge without anybody realizing up front that the color of blue in the costumes was going to present a problem (something they didn't even try addressing in the DE); that's the sort of thing VFX supes on set are supposed to guard against ... and for that matter Wise & his camera folk should have realized it as well.

The room is such a mess in all sorts of ways that it is hard to believe Wise couldn't have demanded a full remodel/upgrade. When he says original p2 engineering was totally unsuitable, I can sort of see where he is coming from, because it looked good without necessarily having full-on feature scale. But the officer's lounge doesn't even look TV-worthy, yet you have a lengthy dialog scene there AND vfx.

The thing about the ceiling tiles that I find interesting is that when you compare them to Fletcher's Vulcan outfits, they really look like they tie in (so did Fletcher get his costume ideas from looking through Minor's engineering castoffs, I wonder? Maybe Minor deserves more credit.)
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Old July 5 2013, 05:04 PM   #18
Joe_Atari
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Re: New Richard Taylor TMP VFX interview

trevanian wrote: View Post
Maybe Minor deserves more credit.
Definitely! More than one PII staff member got the shaft when the production went from TV to the big-screen, but no one more so than Minor IMHO. The PII sets were constructed almost directly from his designs (the bridge, Engineering, and sickbay in particular), and much of that survived into TMP and beyond. His "Production Illustrator" credit (and a secondary one at that) doesn't do his contributions justice. Of course, Hollywood isn't always just (and nobody at the time knew how enduring the designs would be), but like Taylor much of Minor's design influence survived well past PII and TMP (in Minor's case through VOY, particularly in Engineering).

Taylor does take a bit too much credit (although Probert seems happy to share credit with his mentor), and Minor's no longer with us to share his recollections of course, but both lost out to Hollywood politics.
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Old July 6 2013, 01:29 AM   #19
Maurice
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Re: New Richard Taylor TMP VFX interview

trevanian wrote: View Post
The thing about the ceiling tiles that I find interesting is that when you compare them to Fletcher's Vulcan outfits, they really look like they tie in (so did Fletcher get his costume ideas from looking through Minor's engineering castoffs, I wonder? Maybe Minor deserves more credit.)
I suspect he got the idea from the Vulcan sets (Yellowstone and Paramount) and not from the engine room. Minor also visualized the Vulcan sets, but who knows if he suggested using the tiles?

I have an email in to Bob Burns about some of this stuff.
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Old July 6 2013, 02:57 AM   #20
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Re: New Richard Taylor TMP VFX interview

Yeah, if he knows anything more about the recycled aspect or those lightning flash rigs built over the vger set, it'd be really nice to know.

I've always assumed the flashes seen in the air above the set was animation rather than practical, but if those elements were actual physical rigs (like the ones Minor designed and then mentions talking with Trumbull about), that would be one of the more ingenious in-camera illusions in the whole show (by way of comparison, Coppola's DRACULA did something like this with lightning during Harker's coach ride to Castle Dracula, but it was deliberately fake looking, staying on too long and being too artistically shaped to be accepted as the real deal.)

One more thing about the Taylor interview that might be relevant; he goes on & on about having to reboard the movie every time the script changed, that they did three or four passes. Well Minor did at least that many just by himself on TWOK, what with THE OMEGA SYSTEM and the other drafts generated before they got their act together with Meyer. And he did them WHILE doing a decent hunk of designing as well, and probably in a tighter time-frame.

Of course Minor's boards LOOK like storyboards, whereas the Abel boards -- the live-action ones reproduced in ART OF STAR TREK and eating up a huge hunk of valuable page space -- just look like a boring comic book, with a lot of unneeded detail.
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Old July 9 2013, 11:05 PM   #21
publiusr
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Re: New Richard Taylor TMP VFX interview

What I would like to see is for Richard Taylor to sketch out what he thought the Enterprise should look like. I'd like to see that. He might have liked the ringship or the Galaxy Quest Protector. Maybe we could encourage him to do that.
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