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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 28 11.16%
A 53 21.12%
A- 46 18.33%
B+ 25 9.96%
B 27 10.76%
B- 11 4.38%
C+ 13 5.18%
C 12 4.78%
C- 9 3.59%
D+ 8 3.19%
D 10 3.98%
D- 5 1.99%
F 4 1.59%
Voters: 251. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 8 2013, 05:07 AM   #1111
JD
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Crystalline Entity wrote: View Post
Where MoS may have taken shortcuts is that we don't see the Kents realize Kal-El is a superpowerful alien, and we don't see Clark leave home for good.
They know he is an alien.

"You're the answer, son. You're the answer to 'Are we alone in the universe?'"

....
I don't think he's saying that don't know he's an alien, he's saying we don't see the moment where they realize it for the first time.
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Old July 8 2013, 02:19 PM   #1112
Savage Dragon
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I'm sure they are saving that flashback for the next one.
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Old July 8 2013, 02:34 PM   #1113
marksound
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Finally saw it last night. Wow. I really thought it was going to be better than that. It wasn't awful, but there were so many things that could have been done better. They tried to cram too much stuff into one movie.

Two and a half hours is too long. If you need that long to tell a story, maybe you're trying too hard to get it all in.

I think I agree with some here that there were just too many action scenes. The story could have been cleaned up and made a tighter movie by just trimming some of the fat.

Overall though, I gave it a B.
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Old July 8 2013, 04:11 PM   #1114
Greg Cox
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

JD wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Crystalline Entity wrote: View Post
Where MoS may have taken shortcuts is that we don't see the Kents realize Kal-El is a superpowerful alien, and we don't see Clark leave home for good.
They know he is an alien.

"You're the answer, son. You're the answer to 'Are we alone in the universe?'"

....
I don't think he's saying that don't know he's an alien, he's saying we don't see the moment where they realize it for the first time.
I suspecting that finding the baby in a crashed alien spaceship was a big clue . . .
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Old July 8 2013, 04:13 PM   #1115
Dorian Thompson
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Finally saw MOS this weekend. It wasn't bad.....but certainly not great either. I must echo the current sentiments. Too many action scenes. I hated the visuals during Kal El and Zod's fight in the city--the constant crashing into buildings. It was like watching a Transformers video. Very poor. Shannon was just too manic as Zod.

Cavill and Adams were quite good. I also liked the philosophical questions that Jonathan Kent's character presented about what Clark should and shouldn't do in terms of being revealed. Letting people die and whatnot. Very well done....but.....the movie didn't resonate with me emotionally. It didn't stay with me, if that makes any sense. I didn't care enough about the characters. I cared, but not enough. Once thing's for certain and yes, I'm going to get in the way back machine:

With all due respect to Mr. Cavill, Christopher Reeve is still the gold standard of Superman performances. He possessed a genuine warmth and charm that the others playing the role have always lacked. He made you believe it. Of course, Reeve was a classically trained actor. I actually appreciate his performance more in retrospect when I see it as an adult after having viewed him in the Bostonians, Street Smart, and on stage.
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Old July 8 2013, 07:25 PM   #1116
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

^ I watched all the Christopher Reeve movies over the weekend and something about his take on the character doesn't sit well with me. Too handsome, too much of a boy scout and too much of an ideal in general. My favorites right now are Dean Cain and Henry Cavill. Their versions of Superman are more humanized and real.
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Old July 8 2013, 07:37 PM   #1117
The Lensman
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
^ I watched all the Christopher Reeve movies over the weekend and something about his take on the character doesn't sit well with me. Too handsome, too much of a boy scout and too much of an ideal in general. My favorites right now are Dean Cain and Henry Cavill. Their versions of Superman are more humanized and real.
His Superman is one step away from saying "And always remember to eat your vegetables Timmy!"
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Old July 8 2013, 08:46 PM   #1118
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
^ I watched all the Christopher Reeve movies over the weekend and something about his take on the character doesn't sit well with me. Too handsome, too much of a boy scout and too much of an ideal in general. My favorites right now are Dean Cain and Henry Cavill. Their versions of Superman are more humanized and real.
I certainly agree with your approval of Dean Cain (but then, LOIS & CLARK has been my favorite take on the Superman characters for the past twenty years, too bad it doesn't get more recognition.), but I also loved Christopher Reeve, and what he did with the character.

And Henry Cavil is okay.
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Old July 8 2013, 08:56 PM   #1119
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

The Lensman wrote: View Post
Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
^ I watched all the Christopher Reeve movies over the weekend and something about his take on the character doesn't sit well with me. Too handsome, too much of a boy scout and too much of an ideal in general. My favorites right now are Dean Cain and Henry Cavill. Their versions of Superman are more humanized and real.
His Superman is one step away from saying "And always remember to eat your vegetables Timmy!"

Well that was when Superheroes were *gasp* good and moral

Now everyone has to be troubled and conflicted

Reeve did have one or two times where he tried to modernize the character

"Peter pan flys with kids"

and his primal scream
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Old July 8 2013, 09:24 PM   #1120
davejames
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Reeve's Superman will always be my favorite, but I agree the character was a bit of an enigma in those movies. Other than the fact he liked Lois and wanted to fight for "truth, justice, and the American way", we didn't really learn much about him, or what made him tick as a person.

Even with the brief glimpses we got, I thought MOS did a much better job getting inside Superman's head, and making him feel like a real, fleshed out character.
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Old July 8 2013, 10:12 PM   #1121
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Samurai8472 wrote: View Post
The Lensman wrote: View Post
Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
^ I watched all the Christopher Reeve movies over the weekend and something about his take on the character doesn't sit well with me. Too handsome, too much of a boy scout and too much of an ideal in general. My favorites right now are Dean Cain and Henry Cavill. Their versions of Superman are more humanized and real.
His Superman is one step away from saying "And always remember to eat your vegetables Timmy!"

Well that was when Superheroes were *gasp* good and moral

Now everyone has to be troubled and conflicted
A trend that I hope and pray comes to an end SOON. I miss the days when we got stories about people who were heroes, plain and simple.
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Old July 9 2013, 02:10 AM   #1122
M.A.C.O.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

RandyS wrote: View Post
Samurai8472 wrote: View Post
The Lensman wrote: View Post

His Superman is one step away from saying "And always remember to eat your vegetables Timmy!"

Well that was when Superheroes were *gasp* good and moral

Now everyone has to be troubled and conflicted
A trend that I hope and pray comes to an end SOON. I miss the days when we got stories about people who were heroes, plain and simple.
Problem with that is it only would consists of heroes dressing up and displaying their powers and abilities against the villain of the week. After the day is won they will go home and wait for the next mad man or bank robber to start shit. That formula would get stale really fast. It's how comics operated mostly during the Golden and Silver Age, but now in the books and movies depth and exploration of the character is necessary.
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Old July 9 2013, 02:13 AM   #1123
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

The Lensman wrote: View Post
Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
^ I watched all the Christopher Reeve movies over the weekend and something about his take on the character doesn't sit well with me. Too handsome, too much of a boy scout and too much of an ideal in general. My favorites right now are Dean Cain and Henry Cavill. Their versions of Superman are more humanized and real.
His Superman is one step away from saying "And always remember to eat your vegetables Timmy!"
As if a man in a red cape flying around is anymore realistic.
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Old July 9 2013, 02:28 AM   #1124
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
RandyS wrote: View Post
Samurai8472 wrote: View Post


Well that was when Superheroes were *gasp* good and moral

Now everyone has to be troubled and conflicted
A trend that I hope and pray comes to an end SOON. I miss the days when we got stories about people who were heroes, plain and simple.
Problem with that is it only would consists of heroes dressing up and displaying their powers and abilities against the villain of the week. After the day is won they will go home and wait for the next mad man or bank robber to start shit. That formula would get stale really fast. It's how comics operated mostly during the Golden and Silver Age, but now in the books and movies depth and exploration of the character is necessary.
Maybe I should have been more clear. When I said heroes, I didn't just mean superheroes. This meant the guys in space-based series like Star Trek also.

I'm just sick of stories that focus ONLY on people's flaws, and daddy issuses. Why can't people be good simply because they're good? We don't need to see them crying in their beer, or worrying about who's sleeping with who, or not, as the case may be. I'd just like to see a return of stories about good guys vs bad guys, and cut back on all the over-emotinal shit that's been done to death and run into the ground until it's gotten tedious and embarassing.
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Old July 9 2013, 02:29 AM   #1125
Dorian Thompson
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I watched all the Christopher Reeve movies over the weekend and something about his take on the character doesn't sit well with me. Too handsome, too much of a boy scout and too much of an ideal in general. My favorites right now are Dean Cain and Henry Cavill. Their versions of Superman are more humanized and real.
But that's the thing. Superman is an ideal. That's how he was presented from the beginning. That's the crux of the matter How do you humanize and "flesh out" an ideal that's in stark contrast to Batman and all the other dark and conflicted bunch of superheroes? What's wrong with being a hero?

Taking it as a given that Superman I and II were much better than III and IV and judging from the first two movies alone, the "boy scoutness" of Superman's character and those too good to be true lines of his are precisely why I think Reeve was so outstanding in the part and casts such a long shadow. Very few actors could deliver those boy scout lines and not seem a fool or without sacrificing masculinity. Reeve was ridiculously handsome, no doubt, but he never had that namby pamby teen heart throb quality. Masculine in the purest sense.

Also, I was spoiled by the Richard Donner cut of Superman II that had the Brando scenes. When Kal-El is telling ghost Jor El in the fortress that he's willing to give up saving humanity for Lois, he isn't exuding boy scout altruism in that scene. He asks, "Haven't I given enough?" He's tired at that point and wants what "everyone else has."

I wish the Salkinds hadn't pushed Donner out because they were so keen to cut Brando and his salary out of Superman II. The finished film by Lester was very good, but the Donner cut is better. It's a shame. Reeve and Brando together were great, even if Jor El wasn't in the fortress of solitude in the flesh.

Reeve did have one or two times where he tried to modernize the character

"Peter pan flys with kids"
Peter Pan flew with children, Lois, in a fairy tale. Supes could have lured a nun out of the convent with the way Reeve delivered that line. Naughty. Score for Reeve.

and his primal scream
Also a great moment. Then again, Reeve made an excellent amoral, villanous character in the Bostonians and in Street Smart with Morgan Freeman. Oh, and in Deathtrap with Michael Caine. God, I loved that movie. The only actor to have kissed Caine on the lips on film.
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