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Old July 8 2013, 06:46 PM   #16
davejames
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Re: 7 Things That Must Be In MAN OF STEEL 2

The only things I think a sequel needs are a bigger dose of humor, and a more charismatic villain.

Obviously we're going to see more of Metropolis and Lois and Clark, since that's where the first movie ended up. And I'd be surprised as hell if we didn't see the businessman Lex. So I don't think there's any real need to pinpoint those things.

I'd love to throw in Supergirl and Bizarro too, since I'm a big fan of those characters, but that's more a wishlist than something I think the sequel really needs.
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Old July 8 2013, 06:55 PM   #17
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Re: 7 Things That Must Be In MAN OF STEEL 2

If they use Cadmus, they should use the original 1970s where Superman illegally and without permission takes tissue samples of his friends to grow clones - that would play well with modern audience...
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Old July 8 2013, 06:56 PM   #18
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Re: 7 Things That Must Be In MAN OF STEEL 2

We've had a serious over-exposure of Lex Luthor in Superman media. Different villain instead, please.
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Old July 8 2013, 07:17 PM   #19
The Old Mixer
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Re: 7 Things That Must Be In MAN OF STEEL 2

shivkala wrote: View Post
And, as much as I loved Dubbilex, the Guardian, and the other Kirby inspired creations
Those aren't Kirby-inspired creations, they're Kirby creations (though Joe Simon would share the credit for the Guardian and the Newsboy Legion).
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Old July 8 2013, 07:35 PM   #20
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Re: 7 Things That Must Be In MAN OF STEEL 2

I want to see a high tech, almost science fictional city...
I don't.

Let Lex rebuild Metropolis - perhaps using salvaged Kryptonian tech to make it more science fiction...
Okay, that can work, so long as they don't go overboard with it.

But whatever happens, he cannot be the villain of Man of Steel 2. At least he can’t be the villain at the front; he can be revealed as the puppetmaster behind the scenes, setting the stage for his big plan in Man of Steel 3.
Lex is perfect for 2. It would be nice if 3 involved Doomsday and the death of Superman in some capacity, but that might come off as a rehash of Zod.
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Old July 8 2013, 09:31 PM   #21
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Re: 7 Things That Must Be In MAN OF STEEL 2

DalekJim wrote: View Post
We've had a serious over-exposure of Lex Luthor in Superman media. Different villain instead, please.

Lex Luthor probably even more so than Zod is known as Superman's main villian. It makes more sense to go with a villian the public knows when making a film rather than a villian that maybe only the comic book fans know.

Look at other superhero films of the past they've tended to bring out the more well known villians early.
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Old July 8 2013, 09:38 PM   #22
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Re: 7 Things That Must Be In MAN OF STEEL 2

I would also like to see just a little more humor in the movie and I would love to see Lex in the next movie along with another villain.
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Old July 8 2013, 10:20 PM   #23
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Re: 7 Things That Must Be In MAN OF STEEL 2

Jenny is not Jimmy Olson. "Jenny Jurwich." is on her nametag.
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Old July 9 2013, 12:18 AM   #24
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Re: 7 Things That Must Be In MAN OF STEEL 2

Honestly, if we accept this as a new beginning for Superman, then most of the things mentioned here are the last things I want to see in a sequel.

You want Lex Luthor back as a villain? Fine. Take him back to his roots. Enough with the businessman/secret villain stuff. He started out an arms dealer selling weapons to both sides of a conflict. Bring back A-hole Luthor, before he got a first name. Or, bring back mad scientist Lex Luthor. You want Cadmus? Make him the head of it, a chief researcher with twisted motives. Make Metallo its maiden project. (Or Power Girl. Kate Upton can play her. ) Just no more Gene Hackman Luthor or Superman animated Luthor. It's been done. It's been done well, but it's been done, whereas we haven't seen mad scientist Luthor since the Superfriends.
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Old July 9 2013, 02:17 AM   #25
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Re: 7 Things That Must Be In MAN OF STEEL 2

1. As big a scale in action and threat as the first one
2. Alien villain (Brainiac? Doomsday? Darkseid?)
3. IF Lex is in it, as a background/supporting adversary NOT the primary villain. Just stirring up the public against Superman.
4. Superman does more to save innocent lives in the middle of a fight
5. Superman gets to show a sense of humor
6. Show more of Superman co-operating with the military/police
7. subtle lead-in to Justice League
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Old July 9 2013, 02:34 AM   #26
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Re: 7 Things That Must Be In MAN OF STEEL 2

Ultraman.
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Old July 9 2013, 02:48 AM   #27
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Re: 7 Things That Must Be In MAN OF STEEL 2

[QUOTE=shivkala;8349088]
Metropolis As A Place
Sure, the entire finale of Man of Steel took place in Metropolis but a) most of it was destroyed and b) it was a generic city. I want to see a Metropolis as textured as the many screen versions of Gotham City. I want to see Suicide Slum, the dark side of the gleaming city. I want to see a high tech, almost science fictional city, the bright yin to Gotham’s yang. I want to have a sense of place when we see the city streets. Too many previous Superman movies treated Metropolis as just New York City, but it's a town that reflects the general hopefulness of Superman as a character. Bring that to the screen!
Sorry, but I disagree; if we're going by what's happening in reality in most cities in North America, then there wouldn't be a Suicide Slum, since it and most places like it are being gentrified (eg.The Bronx in New York and Regent Park in Toronto, plus other places.) I'd like to think that Superman rebuilt 'Suicide Slum' in between this movie and the next one; maybe a scene in the next movie can focus on that without it being a major big plot point. Again, the author is trapped in the past, as you said, and this would just add on more to the story that doesn't need to be there and the the average moviegoer won't give a shit about (he should know the differences between a movie and a book by now.)

And this is where he lost me. The Newsboy Legion, again is a fond memory from my youth of reading the Superman comics in the early 90's. However, even then, aside from the odd story, weren't really used to full effect. Sure they helped Superboy break out during "Reign of the Supermen," (more on that in a bit), but they were only minor players. So much so, they only had a small cameo in Justice League Unlimited, even though they probably would have made a good addition to the cast of Superman: The Animated Series.

Plus, when's the last time you saw a kid selling newspapers on the street? Hell, I wonder if, even in a big city, there'd be enough kids delivering newspapers to form a "Legion."
I agree with this one. The Newsboy Legion was a relic when it was brought back briefly in the 1980s, as previously mentioned by me and others. Having these characters that the author knows but that most moviegoers don't know would throw off the pacing of the movie, plus, these characters would just become the worst kind of stereotype even if they could be updated to the 2010s (and I don't think that Nolan and Goyer would know how to write them anyway.)

And we're back on track. Yes, Luthor should be a businessman in the Man of Steel universe. This is not a universe where Lex would work as a mad scientist or in his purple and green armor. He should be rebuilding Metropolis, but not with Kryptonian tech. He should be spearheading an effort to slander Superman as "alien" and dangerous. I'm not sure in the universe set up by Man of Steel though he should ever be the primary villain. Without his armor, mad science, or kryptonite, there's no way to have a climax of Superman vs. Lex.
Oh, but there IS a way for Lex to be businessman Lex AND fight Superman with Kryptonian tech-it's shown here in this story: Superman: Up, Up and Away!. A bit of it could only be used, and it would have to be revised somewhat to fit businessman Lex, but it could be done, the same way bits and pieces of Knightfall were used for The Dark Knight Rises.

[quote]If they are very, very careful about this, then yes, I agree they should use the SCU or what it evolved into "The Science Police" (which, Legion of Super-Heroes reference aside, is a stupid name). It would only make sense for the police to be prepared to take down a threat on the scale of what they faced in the first movie. However, though it should be lead by Col. Hardy. I've got nothing against Maggie Sawyer, I like her as a character, probably moreso once they moved her over to Gotham, but it would only be logical to utilize Hardy in this capacity. If anything, have Maggie be in the SCU, maybe as a second in command to Hardy. Then, maybe Hardy could be transferred to another city (tying it into the Justice League idea, with a line like, "Hardy, they need you in Central City, there's meta activity happening there."). If they do use some version of the SCU, they had better well drop Dan "Terrible" Turpin in there as at least a cameo/Easter Egg.

Another argument against Maggie, and again, this is nothing to do with her as a character, but more to do with not wanting to drag the movie down with too much baggage, is that it shouldn't devote too much time to secondary characters. I say, fit what I said about Hardy and the SCU into a prequel comic, and have the SCU in the movie, but only in the background.

Agreed again. I don't even think that she's in the New 52 Superman comic books (Action Comics, Superman, Superman Unchained) and that seems to be what the writers of Man Of Steel are basing the current movie and the next one on. I like/love Maggie, Dan, Tobey, and Jamie to bits, but this is indeed way too much baggage for a writer and a director to put into a movie.

Here we go into 90s-ville again. Great for its time, but I don't see it fitting into the Man of Steel world, unless they are called in to experiment with left over Kryptonian DNA/bodies, as this guy suggests. But, I'm not sure I want the movies to head in that direction. However, cloning is an idea which doesn't always work well in execution. The DNAliens is an idea that would be better suited to, again, the DCAU, which did their own thing with Cadmus.

Besides, what made Cadmus so effective was the link between them and Krypton, which had wars over cloning. Superman had a personal connection to Cadmus, once he found out that his planet and ancestors were involved in a long and bloody war, which eventually destabilized Krypton's core, leading to its eventual destruction. And, while the non-natural birth does point to Kryptonians using some form of genetic manipulation, if not outright cloning, it would take a lot to work it into a sequel.

And, as much as I loved Dubbilex, the Guardian, and the other Kirby inspired creations, I don't see how it would work well in a sequel. Leave them as a small Easter Egg, with a nod to them getting possession of Zod's body, while S.T.A.R. gets the leftover tech.

The comics even realized this, as the New Krypton storyline running through the Superman comics in 2009-2010 had a subplot with Jimmy investigating some secret government conspiracy. This lead him to check on Cadmus, to find Dubbliex, who told him that the original Newsboy Legion was killed. In addition, their clones were missing, presumed dead, as well.

Later, Jimmy exposes the government group responsible for all-out war with the New Krypton and reveals he spread the word through a group of bloggers he dubbed, "The Newsboy Legion."
Ditto on this one, too, except for one thing; the plot line could be utilized to have Superboy be created by cloning in a secret project even more secret than the Cadmus Project! Of course, he would be used against Superman later, but somehow, Superman uses Kryptonian tech to awaken racial memories within the clone, and also imparts a bit of himself into the clone to make him into the Superboy we know and love (Connor Kent version).


But Project Cadmus could be interesting. At the very least, it would be a way to introduce appropriate super-level villains into the story.
Yes, but I think it's very easy to have this go very, very wrong. If they're not careful, it will come off as corny.
It`s also a lot to place int one movie series, as well.

I suppose it kind of makes sense that Lex Luthor wasn't in Man of Steel. That seems to be the trend nowadays that the first new movie in a well known property only hints at the main villain. He doesn't really appear until the 2nd movie. We've already seen this with Norman Osborn in The Amazing Spider-Man, the Joker in Batman Begins & The Dark Knight, and Professor Moriarty in the Robert Downey Jr. Sherlock Holmes movies.
I prefer it this way. The first movie is the origin and unless the villain is integral to the heroes origin (as Zod, being from Krypton, is), then there's no need trying to fit another villain's origin into the hero's. I'm not a big fan of the "Lex in Smallville" idea. Perhaps because I am beholded to Byrne's "Man of Steel" origin, but I don't see how having Clark and Lex meeting in Smallville as kids benefits anything. Besides, the way Man of Steel handled things, it'd be hard not to at least acknowledge that the kids Clark went to school with, must have put 2 and 2 together and identified the relationship between Clark and Superman. This is a problem they'll have to address somehow.
Speaking of which, in an interview with Empire Magazine David S. Goyer implies Perry must know that Clark is Superman. I'm actually okay with this idea. It strains credulity that a dyed-in-the-wool "Newspaperman" like Perry, who made his way up the ladder at the Daily Planet on his strength as a reporter wouldn't at least suspect this.

I think it was during "Hush" in Batman, where Bruce sees Perry and Clark interact as summarizes that Perry must know, but is respecting Clark (and Lois) by playing along. Bruce also guesses that the same must be true for Commissioner Gordon.

I wouldn't mind a subplot where Lois, Clark, and Perry work on covering Clark's tracks a bit to make it harder for others to piece everything together.
I like this one as well.
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Old July 9 2013, 03:11 AM   #28
shivkala
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Re: 7 Things That Must Be In MAN OF STEEL 2

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
Sorry, but I disagree; if we're going by what's happening in reality in most cities in North America, then there wouldn't be a Suicide Slum, since it and most places like it are being gentrified (eg.The Bronx in New York and Regent Park in Toronto, plus other places.) I'd like to think that Superman rebuilt 'Suicide Slum' in between this movie and the next one; maybe a scene in the next movie can focus on that without it being a major big plot point. Again, the author is trapped in the past, as you said, and this would just add on more to the story that doesn't need to be there and the the average moviegoer won't give a shit about (he should know the differences between a movie and a book by now.)
Good points. However, there are always "bad areas of town" and maybe "Suicide Slum" could represent that.

Oh, but there IS a way for Lex to be businessman Lex AND fight Superman with Kryptonian tech-it's shown here in this story: Superman: Up, Up and Away!. A bit of it could only be used, and it would have to be revised somewhat to fit businessman Lex, but it could be done, the same way bits and pieces of Knightfall were used for The Dark Knight Rises.
One problem with that, is that, "Up, Up, and Away" had similar plot threads as Superman Returns. In both cases, Lex discovers a Kryptonian crystal and uses it to attack Metropolis. It was done much, much better in "Up, Up, and Away" (one of my favorite Superman stories), but if they are not careful, people will compare it with Superman Returns.

That being said, with Zod losing his armor and all of the Kryptonian technology that must still be around, it's possible that Lex could appropriate that and make something to be on par with Superman, that's non-crystalline in nature (leave that with the Donner films).

Agreed again. I don't even think that she's in the New 52 Superman comic books (Action Comics, Superman, Superman Unchained) and that seems to be what the writers of Man Of Steel are basing the current movie and the next one on. I like/love Maggie, Dan, Tobey, and Jamie to bits, but this is indeed way too much baggage for a writer and a director to put into a movie.
She's in the New 52, over in Batwoman (at least she was last year when I stopped reading the comics). Which isn't to say they couldn't use her, but it's unlikely.

Ditto on this one, too, except for one thing; the plot line could be utilized to have Superboy be created by cloning in a secret project even more secret than the Cadmus Project! Of course, he would be used against Superman later, but somehow, Superman uses Kryptonian tech to awaken racial memories within the clone, and also imparts a bit of himself into the clone to make him into the Superboy we know and love (Connor Kent version).
This might not be a bad idea for a tie-in comic, same as the idea for the SCU, but I just don't see it being a movie.
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Old July 9 2013, 11:49 AM   #29
Shaka Zulu
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Re: 7 Things That Must Be In MAN OF STEEL 2

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
Honestly, if we accept this as a new beginning for Superman, then most of the things mentioned here are the last things I want to see in a sequel.

You want Lex Luthor back as a villain? Fine. Take him back to his roots. Enough with the businessman/secret villain stuff. He started out an arms dealer selling weapons to both sides of a conflict. Bring back A-hole Luthor, before he got a first name. Or, bring back mad scientist Lex Luthor. You want Cadmus? Make him the head of it, a chief researcher with twisted motives. Make Metallo its maiden project. (Or Power Girl. Kate Upton can play her. ) Just no more Gene Hackman Luthor or Superman animated Luthor. It's been done. It's been done well, but it's been done, whereas we haven't seen mad scientist Luthor since the Superfriends.
I love you so much right now, it`s scary!

You should be scripting the next movie-heck, you should be writing the comic books!*

*In fact, Luthor in the Superman and Superman Unchained books is the mad scientist version, having been put in jail and stripped of his company years ago in Action Comics (which is set years earlier in Superman`s life.)
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Old July 9 2013, 02:19 PM   #30
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Re: 7 Things That Must Be In MAN OF STEEL 2

MoS was fantastic. But to make MoS2 truly superb, it only needs one thing:

Christopher Walken.

Admit it. You know it.
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