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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old July 7 2013, 08:08 PM   #31
marksound
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

As far as the movie itself:

For those who don't know, Laurence Luckinbill was/is married to Lucie Arnaz, making him the son-in-law of Lucille Ball, the former head of Desilu, who commissioned both pilots and produced Star Trek until the Paramount merger/takeover.

In case anyone was wondering.
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Old July 7 2013, 08:15 PM   #32
Navigator_NCC2120
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

Kinokima wrote: View Post
Navigator_NCC2120 wrote: View Post
I never understood why some people were against Spock having a half brother. Before TOS episode "Amok Time" we did not know about Spock's wife T'Pring and yet people don't complain about that, they accept it. Before this episode Spock never mentioned having a wife. So Spock having a half brother was not a problem with ST5 for me. I remember Majel Barret-Roddenberry complaining about us not knowing Spock had a half brother at a Star Trek Convention a year or two before the film was released.

Amok Time is the 1st episode of the 2nd season. The series was still new and things were still being established about Spock at this point. Episodes such as Amok Time, Journey to Babel, the mind meld, nerve pinch, his logic were clever things that established Spock's character.

In fact you can argue that of the main 3, Spock was the most established character (especially by the time of the 5th movie)

Now suddenly years later you suddenly add a long lost family member for Spock. It doesn't really add anything important to Spock. Okay it might explain why Sarek was so hard on him. But I think the fact that Spock was Sarek's only child could explain that just as well.

Sybok dies at the end of the story but did having this 1/2 brother suddenly repeapper in his life and then die really do anything for Spock's character? I'd say no and that is my problem. Sybok for me adds nothing to the story except to add something that wasn't needed in the first place.


edit: As for Kirk's brother in Operation not a really huge fan of that either but we weren't discussing that episode. It was also still early in the series run when we don't yet know these characters as well.
Kinokima,

Thanks for the quick response. So if it had been mentioned or shown that Spock had a half brother during TOS you would accept it, but after TOS you would not accept it, correct?

Is there anything you or anyone else would accept or reject about the Spock character's past being revealed after TOS? I ask because I am genuinely curious. I am not trying to offend you or anyone else by asking this. For example, didn't Picard mention attending Spock's wedding in TNG episode "Unification I". Do you accept this or reject this (that Spock remarried)?


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Old July 7 2013, 08:21 PM   #33
wjaspers
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

If all you naysayers should investigate a little bit more, how it was done, and especially WHY it was done, you would see that your comments are nonsens. Your comments are just made seeing a link without knowing what the story behind this "directors cut" is.
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Old July 7 2013, 08:34 PM   #34
JarodRussell
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

Navigator_NCC2120 wrote: View Post
So if it had been mentioned or shown that Spock had a half brother during TOS you would accept it, but after TOS you would not accept it, correct?
That's something I noticed with many people. They only have a qualm with Sybok because he appeared first in TFF, not in TOS. For some reason.
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Old July 7 2013, 08:38 PM   #35
Kinokima
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

Navigator_NCC2120 wrote: View Post
Thanks for the quick response. So if it had been mentioned or shown that Spock had a half brother during TOS you would accept it, but after TOS you would not accept it, correct?
I don't know it depends on how it was presented. It's not like I enjoy everything the way it was presented in TOS either. Like I said I am just not a fan of the "long lost" family member.

Also not liking and accepting are two different things. I don't have a choice but to accept that Spock has a long lost half brother now but that doesn't mean I have to like it or think it was good writing.

Is there anything you or anyone else would accept or reject about the Spock character's past being revealed after TOS? I ask because I am genuinely curious. I am not trying to offend you or anyone else by asking this. For example, didn't Picard mention attending Spock's wedding in TNG episode "Unification I". Do you accept this or reject this (that Spock remarried)?
I'll admit I don't know because I have not seen the episode and I am not familiar with it (until now).

Whether I like it or not depends on the execution. I am not entirely against the idea of Spock getting married again but I am not a big fan of "romance just for the sake of it".
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Old July 7 2013, 08:38 PM   #36
marksound
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

I've never had a problem with bringing in new aspects of a character's history that was previously unknown. There are people you (the collective "you") have known all your lives who have relatives they haven't told you about. And why should they? If it comes up, it comes up.

This just happened to come up in a way that fans don't like. Well, too late. You weren't on the team supervising the script, and you can't go back in time* to change it.

*Let me know if you can go back in time. There are a couple of things I'd like to sneak past the TPD cops.
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Old July 7 2013, 08:41 PM   #37
Kinokima
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
This just happened to come up in a way that fans don't like. Well, too late. You weren't on the team supervising the script, and you can't go back in time* to change it.
Well it seems that Nimoy and DC Fontana (who came up with most of Spock's family history) also were not big fans of it, so I guess I am not alone.
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Old July 7 2013, 08:56 PM   #38
Christopher
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

What about TWOK? It gave Kirk a never-before-mentioned adult son, along with the lost love who was his mother (although lost loves/old flames out of nowhere were a standard TV trope that TOS used multiple times). It also gave Spock a longtime protegee, Saavik, whom we'd never heard of before. And in the Director's Cut, it gave Scotty a nephew. TWOK probably sets some kind of record for the number of relationships-out-of-nowhere it introduced.

And McCoy's daughter wasn't mentioned onscreen until the animated series. "The Way to Eden" would've been the story that introduced her, but it was rewritten heavily and she became Chekov's old girlfriend instead.


trevanian wrote: View Post
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Besides, people would probably accuse it of ripping off the Galaxy Quest rock monster. And yes, I know that rock monster was a reference to the one that was supposed to be in ST V, but others wouldn't know that.
That should never be a reason against restoring a scene. It's not Star Trek V's fault that ten years later someone else took that idea and remade it.
That's kind of like reviewers that knocked DUNE for ripping off SW visuals when it was the novel DUNE's own iconography that SW referenced.

I imagine when CHILDHOOD'S END gets done folks will be saying 'visual ripoff of V and INDEPENDENCE DAY' when the ships hover above the world's cities too.
Naturally I'm not endorsing such a reaction. I'm just wryly observing that it would inevitably occur, and I'd be happy not to have to sit through the barrage of stupidity. Essentially, I'm saying that for me, personally, adding a rock monster and new CGI to TFF would not materially improve my enjoyment of the film.

I mean, come on, it's a freakin' rock monster. What a stupid, cheesy, lazy climax to a story about the search for something transcendent. Okay, "God" does turn out to be just some malevolent entity out for blood, but not actually seeing the entity helps it retain an air of rarefied mystery. Having it turn into a homunculus made of rocks at the end was a laughable idea, a tacked-on bit of action that had nothing to do with the story and that would've brought down even more deserved ridicule upon the film if it had been left in.

What TFF needs to be better is not stuff being added, but stuff being removed. Cut out the impossibly high turboshaft. Cut out the nonsensical "center of the galaxy" references -- go straight from Sybok mentioning the Great Barrier to Kirk saying no ship has ever entered the Barrier. Cut out Scotty knocking himself out and that uncomfortable flirtation with Uhura. Maybe cut out or modify the insanely stupid moment where a photon torpedo -- which is supposed to be an antimatter warhead far more powerful than any nuclear bomb -- goes off not 20 yards behind the heroes and they're just knocked down rather than instantly vaporized. (Maybe cut out Sulu's "Torpedo armed" line and redo the FX so it's a phaser beam instead.)
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Old July 7 2013, 08:59 PM   #39
JarodRussell
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

Christopher wrote: View Post
What TFF needs to be better is not stuff being added, but stuff being removed. Cut out the impossibly high turboshaft. Cut out the nonsensical "center of the galaxy" references -- go straight from Sybok mentioning the Great Barrier to Kirk saying no ship has ever entered the Barrier. Cut out Scotty knocking himself out and that uncomfortable flirtation with Uhura. Maybe cut out or modify the insanely stupid moment where a photon torpedo -- which is supposed to be an antimatter warhead far more powerful than any nuclear bomb -- goes off not 20 yards behind the heroes and they're just knocked down rather than instantly vaporized. (Maybe cut out Sulu's "Torpedo armed" line and redo the FX so it's a phaser beam instead.)
Except for the "Scotty knocking himself out" bit, all those changes would perhaps enhance the experience for Trekkers because they are annoyed with inconsistencies, but wouldn't change anything for the "general audience" who don't know how many decks the ship has, how fast the ship can travel or how a photon torpedo works.
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Old July 7 2013, 09:11 PM   #40
Kinokima
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

Christopher wrote: View Post
What about TWOK? It gave Kirk a never-before-mentioned adult son, along with the lost love who was his mother (although lost loves/old flames out of nowhere were a standard TV trope that TOS used multiple times). It also gave Spock a longtime protegee, Saavik, whom we'd never heard of before. And in the Director's Cut, it gave Scotty a nephew. TWOK probably sets some kind of record for the number of relationships-out-of-nowhere it introduced.

And McCoy's daughter wasn't mentioned onscreen until the animated series. "The Way to Eden" would've been the story that introduced her, but it was rewritten heavily and she became Chekov's old girlfriend instead.

Once again my main issue with Sybok is he is a long lost family member that becomes so integral to the 5th movie but in the end really doesn't add much of importance to Spock's character. In fact he feels forgotten by the end of the movie. Sybok doesn't add depth to Spock's character, it just feels like a twist.

I am not saying suddenly introducing family members is always a bad thing but Spock already had an established family in the show: characters like McCoy and Scotty did not.

I am also not a terrible big fan of the way Kirk's son is suddenly introduced in WOK and then killed off in the next movie. Surely Kirk would care about his son dying but the movie didn't make me care. But at least this can explain why Kirk has a hard time trusting Klingons in the 6th movie.
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Old July 7 2013, 09:16 PM   #41
The Old Mixer
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

I never had a problem with the concept of Sybok as Spock's emotional half-brother, but the execution left something to be desired. There was nothing remotely Vulcan about Luckinbill's performance...he just came off as a gregarious human who happened to have pointed ears.
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Old July 7 2013, 10:50 PM   #42
Elder Knight
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

I've grumbled about this before, but why stop now?

I'd suggest some backstory for General Korrd. After all, his assertion of dormant authority supplies the resolution to the crisis.

All we see of him in the film shows him as drunk and useless, and his sudden influence comes out of left field.

Have a scene wherein Spock consults the ship's computer (stock footage would work) for background on Korrd. This permits us to see (newly filmed) flashbacks depicting someone who was once hailed as a great statesman and reluctant warrior, but whose capabilities have since deteriorated.

Of course, Spock will remember this at the ciitical moment.
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Old July 8 2013, 12:05 AM   #43
Sran
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

Elder Knight wrote: View Post
I'd suggest some backstory for General Korrd. After all, his assertion of dormant authority supplies the resolution to the crisis.
Well, there was dialogue between Kirk and Spock detailing that Korrd had fallen out of favor with the Klingon High Council but was once a highly respected military commander. IIRC, Kirk mentioned that Korrd's battle strategies were required study material for every Starfleet Academy cadet, and that he also hoped he would fare better than his counterpart once he was put out to pasture.

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Old July 8 2013, 12:51 AM   #44
The Old Mixer
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

^Indeed, that aspect of the film was as developed as it needed to be. A "Young Korrd Adventures" flashback sequence would have been a needless diversion. Some things are best left to the imagination.
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Old July 8 2013, 01:09 AM   #45
trevanian
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

Kinokima wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
This just happened to come up in a way that fans don't like. Well, too late. You weren't on the team supervising the script, and you can't go back in time* to change it.
Well it seems that Nimoy and DC Fontana (who came up with most of Spock's family history) also were not big fans of it, so I guess I am not alone.
Back in the 70s after TAS, Fontana pretty much issued a decry that Spock had no siblings, just to head off all the fanfiction that was headed in that direction. Even so, Vonda McIntyre included a weird emotional cousin of his in a novel about a decade later, a few years prior to TFF.
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