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Old July 3 2013, 11:24 PM   #61
Charles Phipps
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Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?

Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
Locarno may have had similar traits to Paris, but with his backstory, he would be a character who was continually getting into trouble because he felt compelled to buck authority at many points. At least Paris' backstory, the son of an unloving military leader, gave room for him to be redeemed. He might be trusted; Locarno cannot.
Uh, isn't the situation on Voyager where NO ONE can be trusted but have to be? You have the Marquis and the Federation and a guy who straddles both. The whole point is that this is a crew which can't be trusted. Yet, you take what you got because they have no choice.
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Old July 3 2013, 11:29 PM   #62
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Uh, isn't the situation on Voyager where NO ONE can be trusted but have to be? You have the Marquis and the Federation and a guy who straddles both. The whole point is that this is a crew which can't be trusted. Yet, you take what you got because they have no choice.
If you think Locarno is an irredeemable character, then I guess young brash Ensign Picard was too. Heck, after his screw up at the Academy that nearly got him expelled it still took him taking a Nausican knife through the chest to teach him some restraint and sense.
As I subsequently wrote,
it would be impossible to make him a bridge officer, due to his demonstrated contempt of authority, expulsion from the academy, and (presumed) involvement in the Maquis (if that was supposed to be his connection to Chakotay). And in spite of a few special episodes, Star Trek generally cares little from those outside the bridge crew/command staff.
Locarno would be positioned so low down on Voyager that we wouldn't give a lick about him. He would have been lucky to wash vegetables for Neelix.

ETA: If I'm not mistaken, Torres had the worst record of all the Maquis officers incorporated into the command structure, and she quit the Academy. She was not booted.
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Old July 3 2013, 11:32 PM   #63
Charles Phipps
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Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?

Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
Locarno would be positioned so low down on Voyager that we wouldn't give a lick about him. He would have been lucky to wash vegetables for Neelix.
Except, really, that wouldn't be the case. The Chief Engineer and XO are terrorists. Janeway does not have any spare crew members. Lorcano has to be at the helm because he's the only one who knows how to fly the ship.

It's a choice between trusting an untrustworthy man with a sensitive position or not moving. It's kind of like Pitch Black. The dude is a super-max prisoner but he's the guy who knows how to survive.

Obviously, everyone acted like they were best friends after the pilot but this was the premise. Lorcano knows how to fly the ship and how to operate it and nobody else does--everyone else who could be trained to do so would have to be by Lorcano and are just as likely to be a terrorist.

Everyone is acting like Janeway was magnanimously letting the Marquis join their crew--when it was desperation that fueled her decision.
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Old July 3 2013, 11:44 PM   #64
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Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?

Obviously, everyone acted like they were best friends after the pilot but this was the premise. Lorcano knows how to fly the ship and how to operate it and nobody else does--everyone else who could be trained to do so would have to be by Lorcano and are just as likely to be a terrorist.
I don't know about the last part, but obviously the producers chose to make the crew a more harmonious group than was probably realistic. Basic flight experience seems to be common in Starfleet, and I don't think Locarno would have had the time in 2 1/2 years after his booting to gain more experience at piloting Starfleet capital ships that others would not be considered above him.
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Old July 3 2013, 11:50 PM   #65
Charles Phipps
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Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?

Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
I don't know about the last part, but obviously the producers chose to make the crew a more harmonious group than was probably realistic. Basic flight experience seems to be common in Starfleet, and I don't think Locarno would have had the time in 2 1/2 years after his booting to gain more experience at piloting Starfleet capital ships that others would not be considered above him.
Remember, Locarno was graduating and the incident was his "send off" that went horribly arry. So, presumably he was trained for exactly the post he was placed at--especially since he was a pilot. As for there being no one in front of him--the last of manpower and resources is, again, a major theme of Voyager even if it was underplayed. Janeway wouldn't need the Marquis at their posts if not for the lack of manpower.

Assuming Locarno=Paris, we also know Paris is ridiculously overqualified for his position. He's a master pilot and even knows the engineering behind flight enough to experiment with transwarp.

He's the genius criminal.
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Old July 3 2013, 11:52 PM   #66
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Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?

Belz... wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
Read the rest of the topic.
That's not very nice.

I did, by the way. Doesn't answer my question.
If you kept reading it would have. It was answered in the second post.

Also don't just assume things. There have clearly have been issues in the past about reusing certain characters.
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Old July 4 2013, 08:29 AM   #67
Mario de Monti
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Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?

R. Star wrote: View Post
I wouldn't call Locarno an irredeemable character at all. Heck, just compare him to Picard in the First Duty. They are eerily similar, and Picard admits he was brash in his youth and made some sort of similar mistake that nearly got him kicked out.

Locarno saw potential in Wesley and went out of his way to take him under his wing and accept him into Nova squardron when there were older, more experienced classmen wanting men. Whereas, Picard saw potential in Wesley and went out of his way to take him under his wing and made him an acting Ensign on the Enterprise, when there were older, more experienced officers wanting the job.

When confronted with the accident and the coverup, Picard gives Wesley a stirring speech about duty and honor to convince him to do the right thing. Lacarno gives Wesley a stirring speech about loyalty to your friends and the team to convince him to stand with them.

Picard was a young womanizing hotshot in his own words with no sense and without a shred of discipline, durin his youth. Locarno was a young hotshot who wanted to graduate a legend and "win" above all else.

Locarno fell on his sword once the truth came out to save the rest of the team. Picard took Sito(and maybe the other girl, it's a big ship) under his wing to make sure she was given a fair chance and what she did wasn't held against her.

So, there you have it. If you think Locarno is an irredeemable character, then I guess young brash Ensign Picard was too. Heck, after his screw up at the Academy that nearly got him expelled it still took him taking a Nausican knife through the chest to teach him some restraint and sense.
I absolutely agree and these are points well made
BTW, are there any Starfleet officers without some kind of stain on their shiny armor? They are human after all ... well, most of them anyway
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Old July 4 2013, 10:50 AM   #68
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Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Uh, isn't the situation on Voyager where NO ONE can be trusted but have to be? You have the Marquis and the Federation and a guy who straddles both. The whole point is that this is a crew which can't be trusted. Yet, you take what you got because they have no choice.
In theory, absolutely. That lasted all of two episodes, right ?
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Old July 5 2013, 03:07 AM   #69
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Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?

Belz... wrote: View Post
Wouldn't any character they wrote for the series be property of Paramount at the time ? Isn't that standard practice, that the stuff you write for the series isn't yours, like programs you code for a company aren't yours ?
Depends. Some scripts and characters are generated in-house, and some characters simply evolve over time. When we first meet O'Brien, he's called "Conn" and didn't even get a surname for many episodes. Ditto his first and middle name. But some characters are generated by outside writers and if those original characters start recurring, that writer gets paid per appearance.

T'Pau or Locarno as a regular character in a series would have been problematic. I think Ro Laren was developed in-house, so she could have been used as a lead in DS9 (instead of Kira Nerys), as was planned, but the actress turned down the offer. Similarly, Worf was developed in-house.
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Last edited by Therin of Andor; July 5 2013 at 04:45 PM. Reason: typo
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Old July 5 2013, 03:21 AM   #70
Greg Cox
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Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?

I seem to recall that there were similar issues with "Xena: Warrior Princess," who first appeared on an episode of HERCULES. When it was decided to give Xena her own series, they had to credit and compensate the guy who scripted that HERCULES episode.
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Old July 5 2013, 10:36 AM   #71
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Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?

Well that's very informative. Thanks for all your answers.
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Old July 6 2013, 02:00 AM   #72
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Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?

I'm surprised how many people are saying Locarno is irredeemable. To me, unless your crime is first degree murder or rape, if you serve your time and honestly repent, anyone can be redeemed.

Locarno's crime is reckless manslaughter and obstruction of justice.

But I suppose that's why Paris wasn't Locarno. Because a surprising number of people think doing one horrible thing brands somebody their entire life.
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Old July 6 2013, 02:04 AM   #73
Sran
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Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?

^Well said. In all honesty, was what Lacarno did any worse than Sisko's actions in bringing Romulus into the Dominion War?

--Sran
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Old July 6 2013, 02:42 AM   #74
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Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
I'm surprised how many people are saying Locarno is irredeemable. To me, unless your crime is first degree murder or rape, if you serve your time and honestly repent, anyone can be redeemed.

Locarno's crime is reckless manslaughter and obstruction of justice.

But I suppose that's why Paris wasn't Locarno. Because a surprising number of people think doing one horrible thing brands somebody their entire life.
Sran wrote: View Post
^Well said. In all honesty, was what Lacarno did any worse than Sisko's actions in bringing Romulus into the Dominion War?

--Sran
I also feel that they didn't need to change him into Tom Paris, but it doesn't matter whether or not we think Locarno was irredeemable or not. The writers/producers decided he could not be redeemed and changed the character during pre-production.
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Old July 6 2013, 02:53 AM   #75
Sran
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Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?

Kevman7987 wrote: View Post
I also feel that they didn't need to change him into Tom Paris, but it doesn't matter whether or not we think Locarno was irredeemable or not. The writers/producers decided he could not be redeemed and changed the character during pre-production.
In the end, it didn't change anything. RDM did a great job playing the character he was given. Tom Paris became one of the most complete characters Star Trek has ever had. Not only did he finally become the exemplary officer his father always wanted him to be, but he also found love and started his own family. He underwent more character development during Voyager's run than anyone except for the Doctor.

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