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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old July 4 2013, 06:48 PM   #16
Trek Sifter
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Re: BY ANY OTHER NAME: Rojan and the cubes

CaptPapa wrote: View Post
Maybe is just me, but a woman's death has more impact than a man's does. It elicits more sympathy, and generates more loathing for perpetrator. Coupled with Kirk's obvious 'fondness for the ladies' this is the writer's way to clearly delineate the Kelvins as evil.
Ah, okay, I see--thanks for the elaboration
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Old July 4 2013, 07:05 PM   #17
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Re: BY ANY OTHER NAME: Rojan and the cubes

I don't think Rojan cared which dodecahedron he crushed, it was simply a means to say to Kirk I have control and you have none.
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Old July 4 2013, 08:18 PM   #18
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Re: BY ANY OTHER NAME: Rojan and the cubes

MacLeod wrote: View Post
I don't think Rojan cared which dodecahedron he crushed, it was simply a means to say to Kirk I have control and you have none.
Cuboctahedrons, not dodecahedrons. A dodecahedron has 12 identical faces, each face being a regular pentagon.
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Old July 4 2013, 11:57 PM   #19
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Re: BY ANY OTHER NAME: Rojan and the cubes

^I stand corrected
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Old July 5 2013, 12:08 AM   #20
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Re: BY ANY OTHER NAME: Rojan and the cubes

Given the context of the time (and even today) that scene has a big impact. Yes, because the girl is cute and we don't know much of her...she elicits sympathy. However, the fact that a black male character lives over the damsel who is a white....kind of buys into the entire Star Trek idea. I'm sure there can be articles or 'stuff' written about Rojan's choice, and if he did or didn't actually know who the cubes were. Furthermore, maybe he knew of Earth's past or maybe the 23rd century treatment of non-white human characters - if that still existed. Remember Sisko, even in the 24th century was still bothered by racism from Earth's past, hinting that there was possibly racism during his own time period.

We have to remember this episode is from the 1960s where black characters in films and television had a high mortality rate. Again, even today in films - especially horror films - the black or non-white characters are usually the ones to 'buy it' first or, at least, not make it to the end of the show. I recall being happy about Will Smith's Captain Steven Hiller being the hero in a summer blockbuster - and not dying - in Independence Day. So, while I feel for Julie Cobb's character, I think it's interesting who lived and who died. It's a very poignant Star Trek moment.

Last edited by Joel_Kirk; July 5 2013 at 12:18 AM.
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Old July 5 2013, 05:27 AM   #21
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Re: BY ANY OTHER NAME: Rojan and the cubes

DaleC76 wrote: View Post
That really creeped me out as a kid.
Same here, though the process was almost identical to that of the "dehydrator machine" in the 1966 Batman movie, which didn't creep me out at all.
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Old July 5 2013, 05:46 AM   #22
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Re: BY ANY OTHER NAME: Rojan and the cubes

Rojan knew so little of humanity that I doubt he had any idea 'who' he was killing. I'm sure all humans looked exactly the same to him. The native Kelvan form has leathery skin and 100 tentacles, after all.
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Old July 5 2013, 10:49 AM   #23
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Re: BY ANY OTHER NAME: Rojan and the cubes

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
The native Kelvan form has leathery skin and 100 tentacles, after all.
Leathery? Spock said only 100 limbs resembling tentacles. Although Kelinda might develop a fetish for leather.

The crushed polyhedron reminded me of the "dehydrated" crew in "The Omega Glory." I wonder if the Kelvins have a controlled effect something like the disease from Omega Four? The disease didn't reduce uniforms and other gear, though.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:36 PM   #24
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Re: BY ANY OTHER NAME: Rojan and the cubes

What Rojan demonstrates is more like transporter technology. It isn't simply desiccating the victim by removing all the water. It is (as Metryq points out) also reducing clothes and boots.

I invoke transporter technology because the reduced objects seem to be data storage units-- but with no mechanism. The "cube" itself is the data, stored in the pattern of its molecules.

There must be a nearby storage place for the missing mass that makes up each person. That mass is later recalled and reassembled according to the data in the cube.
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Old July 5 2013, 01:28 PM   #25
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Re: BY ANY OTHER NAME: Rojan and the cubes

Or maybe the "missing mass" is stored as pure energy (in the "projector" located in Engineering). I always figured the transporter as a derivative of phaser technology. The transportee is "disintegrated" in the chamber. Then a beam of energy projected at a planet is "molded" by the pattern stored in the transporter.

Perhaps the Kelvin technology is a super "Zip file." No buffer degradation, as with the transporter... unless someone uses your foam polyhedron to arrange flowers.
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Old July 5 2013, 01:45 PM   #26
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Re: BY ANY OTHER NAME: Rojan and the cubes

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
Given the context of the time (and even today) that scene has a big impact. Yes, because the girl is cute and we don't know much of her...she elicits sympathy. However, the fact that a black male character lives over the damsel who is a white....kind of buys into the entire Star Trek idea. I'm sure there can be articles or 'stuff' written about Rojan's choice, and if he did or didn't actually know who the cubes were. Furthermore, maybe he knew of Earth's past or maybe the 23rd century treatment of non-white human characters - if that still existed. Remember Sisko, even in the 24th century was still bothered by racism from Earth's past, hinting that there was possibly racism during his own time period.

We have to remember this episode is from the 1960s where black characters in films and television had a high mortality rate. Again, even today in films - especially horror films - the black or non-white characters are usually the ones to 'buy it' first or, at least, not make it to the end of the show. I recall being happy about Will Smith's Captain Steven Hiller being the hero in a summer blockbuster - and not dying - in Independence Day. So, while I feel for Julie Cobb's character, I think it's interesting who lived and who died. It's a very poignant Star Trek moment.
Of the roughly 60 or so casualties on TOS, limited to Enterprise personnel and leaving out the six films, the only black character to perish----and the last, Stardate-wise----turned out to be Scott's assistant Watkins, from THAT WHICH SURVIVES.

Many redshirts actually survived their guest appearances, notably in the first season. In Season Two, thanks in part to THE APPLE, THE CHANGELING and OBSESSION, they were dropping like flies. BY ANY OTHER NAME is the rare ''either-or'' dilemma in which you'll get good and bad luck. But what makes this scene especially shocking is that ONLY the security guard gets out alive. The camera work sets up the cliche by seeming to lead to it. So many will assume Shea has bought it, before the shock.
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Old July 5 2013, 08:37 PM   #27
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Re: BY ANY OTHER NAME: Rojan and the cubes

CaptPapa wrote: View Post
Each time I watch this episode, I carefully try to follow the cubes through the scene. I agree that the director/crew got it right - the female crew member's cube was destroyed.
I can't say what Rojan was thinking when deciding which to destroy, but the writer certainly did give it thought. In destroying the woman's cube, it gave a greater impact to the story - remember the context of the time.
As an aside, when watching the episode I often wonder did the restored crew member have a headache, or other assorted bumps and bruises from being tossed about while in a 'dehydrated' state?
I always thought the same thing, just being tossed to the ground would have probably knocked a few really tiny pieces off the block. How cool would it have been to have a few tiny holes in his shirt/pants and a couple of little bleeding spots on his skin?
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Old July 5 2013, 09:41 PM   #28
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Re: BY ANY OTHER NAME: Rojan and the cubes

Being tossed onto the grass while landing on the ''original'' one out of fourteen sides is defying the odds beyond belief. That indicates the restored position will automatically match the previous position of the restoree. Which is good for Shea, but bad for Chekov and Uhura if they are brought back away from their chairs.
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Old July 5 2013, 10:29 PM   #29
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Re: BY ANY OTHER NAME: Rojan and the cubes

foxhot wrote: View Post
Being tossed onto the grass while landing on the ''original'' one out of fourteen sides is defying the odds beyond belief. That indicates the restored position will automatically match the previous position of the restoree. Which is good for Shea, but bad for Chekov and Uhura if they are brought back away from their chairs.
So make sure that if they fall on their backsides, they're already on a mat of some kind.
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Old July 5 2013, 10:33 PM   #30
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Re: BY ANY OTHER NAME: Rojan and the cubes

Where's the fun in that?
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