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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old July 3 2013, 12:13 PM   #136
Stoo
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

teacake wrote: View Post
As long as it isn't steampunk, I'm happy.
Haha yes. No steam engines, goggles or top hats.
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Old July 3 2013, 12:17 PM   #137
teacake
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Just kill me if copper or bronze ever shows up in Star Trek.

I firmly believe if I hold my breath long enough eventually we will return to the bright white minimalist future of TMP and Logan's Run. Heck they did have that on Ocampa.

OMG! I am a luddite about the PAST infecting a fictional future!
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Old July 3 2013, 02:03 PM   #138
Guy Gardener
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

From TNG Emergence.

PICARD: Yes, but there's a certain expectancy too. A hopefulness about the future. You see, Shakespeare enjoyed mixing opposites. The past and the future. Hope and despair. Data, what is this? Is this part of your programme?
(bright lights are coming towards them, a steam whistle blows)
DATA: No, sir.
PICARD: What is going on?
DATA: It appears to be a steam locomotive.
PICARD: A train?
DATA: If I am not mistaken.
PICARD: Computer, end programme.
(the train's headlight reaches them)
PICARD: Computer, end programme.
(Data pushes Picard out of the way as the train thunders past)
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Old July 3 2013, 02:09 PM   #139
teacake
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

That, is torture.

If certain people had their way the Borg would all be in copper! With STEAM coming out of their implants!

All of a sudden I'm feeling fond of Geordi's ridiculous visor. You know if VOY had happened a decade later Captain Proton would have been H.G. Wells inspired.
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Old July 3 2013, 05:39 PM   #140
Anwar
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Stoo wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
If the VOY crew couldn't adapt to anything in the DQ or be able to figure out how to use Alien tech, they'd look like total morons compared to all the other Trek shows.
Using alien tech is I think exactly what would happen, but it would be more interesting to show that as clearly different to business as usual with shiny starfleet-issue gear. Different deflector, nacelles glowing a weird colour. Engine room full of jury-rigged components. Some new weapon that isn't a torpedo or a beam. Some things giving out at really bad times, others adding unexpected new capabilities. and so on.
I agree they should've that they should've added alien tech that would give them new capabilities, but I disagree with the whole "Patchwork" ship thing to the point it's some ugly mish-mash. The other Trek shows showed them as being better than that.

I mean hell, in Farscape they added new tech to Moya but it didn't change her appearance or anything.
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Old July 4 2013, 06:59 AM   #141
theblitz
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

They tried adding alien technology to Voyager in the episode "Prime Factors".

The results were NOT good - to say the least.
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Old July 4 2013, 07:26 AM   #142
Guy Gardener
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

You gotta wonder if the data base they got in exchange for that incompatible bauble destroyed their world with the rise and fall of fancultures that went to war.
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Old July 4 2013, 11:03 AM   #143
Stoo
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Anwar wrote: View Post
I agree they should've that they should've added alien tech that would give them new capabilities, but I disagree with the whole "Patchwork" ship thing to the point it's some ugly mish-mash. The other Trek shows showed them as being better than that.

I mean hell, in Farscape they added new tech to Moya but it didn't change her appearance or anything.
A patchwork look gives a better impression of being forced to make do and improvise to survive. Voyager shouldn't have been operating like other trek shows, there should have been a more clear distinction between her situation and Enterprise D on an exploration cruise.

Can't comment on Farscape, never watched it.
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Old July 4 2013, 02:41 PM   #144
Guy Gardener
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

You heard of heroin?

Try Farscape instead.

Less needles.
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Old July 4 2013, 05:47 PM   #145
Anwar
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Stoo wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
I agree they should've that they should've added alien tech that would give them new capabilities, but I disagree with the whole "Patchwork" ship thing to the point it's some ugly mish-mash. The other Trek shows showed them as being better than that.

I mean hell, in Farscape they added new tech to Moya but it didn't change her appearance or anything.
A patchwork look gives a better impression of being forced to make do and improvise to survive. Voyager shouldn't have been operating like other trek shows, there should have been a more clear distinction between her situation and Enterprise D on an exploration cruise.

Can't comment on Farscape, never watched it.
But if they couldn't make new allies and figure out how to repair the ship in strange circumstances, they'd look like idiots compared to TOS and TNG. Yes, I can see some patchwork stuff done maybe on the inside but the whole ship becoming some ugly mish-mash is too far and would make them too incompetent.
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Old July 5 2013, 10:02 AM   #146
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Anwar wrote: View Post
So DS9 gets a pass on the "Repairs between episode/seasons" thing VOY was denied.
The difference is:

Voyager being broken down all alone far from Federation having to scrape by is potential for interesting stories that was never utilized on the show.

DS9 being broken down storyline wouldn't make sense, because why would the Federation and Bajorans let the strategically extremely important station fall into disrepair in the first place.

One is ignoring your stories entire premise, the other is just glossing over Sisko making a phone call asking for additional repair crews and materials.
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Old July 5 2013, 10:42 AM   #147
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Anwar wrote: View Post
But if they couldn't make new allies and figure out how to repair the ship in strange circumstances, they'd look like idiots compared to TOS and TNG. Yes, I can see some patchwork stuff done maybe on the inside but the whole ship becoming some ugly mish-mash is too far and would make them too incompetent.
They'd look like people having a harder time surviving and keeping the ship running, compared to TOS and TNG. Which is kind of meant to be the point of the show.

If you're focussing too much on how good the engineers look you're missing the point. The more important question is, what potential did Voyager have for new storytelling, and doing something different to preceeding shows?
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Old July 5 2013, 05:27 PM   #148
Anwar
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

dodge wrote: View Post
DS9 being broken down storyline wouldn't make sense, because why would the Federation and Bajorans let the strategically extremely important station fall into disrepair in the first place.
Because they're at war, and during major wars supplies become harder to come by and showing that the Station would take lasting damage and their resident warship wasn't always up to snuff would show the effect of a major war on the place.

As compared to VOY, who was not at war with anyone and was surrounded by non-hostiles who'd be willing to help.

They'd look like people having a harder time surviving and keeping the ship running, compared to TOS and TNG.
TOS and TNG had the same thing happen to them that happened to VOY, except they got home faster.

They shot themselves in the foot with VOY's premise because said premise excludes them from every finding help or having any support or being able to do any repairs ever. The ship wouldn't have lasted half a season if they really stuck to that.

And if they DO make allies and manage to repair the ship, then the audience does nothing but complain that they were able to do so instead of falling to pieces.

You just can't win.
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Old July 5 2013, 10:12 PM   #149
MacLeod
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Aside from a couple of episodes DSN wasn't on the frontline, it might have been close to it, but it really didn't take the same pounding week in week out that VOY did.
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Old July 5 2013, 10:16 PM   #150
MacLeod
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

[QUOTE=Anwar;8339269]
dodge wrote: View Post
They shot themselves in the foot with VOY's premise because said premise excludes them from every finding help or having any support or being able to do any repairs ever. The ship wouldn't have lasted half a season if they really stuck to that.

And if they DO make allies and manage to repair the ship, then the audience does nothing but complain that they were able to do so instead of falling to pieces.

You just can't win.

I think some of the critisim is that they didn't really even pay lip service to it.

i.e they could have done something like

Captains Log supplemental, we have just completed a stop over with the Yoldaran's, where we were able to make long needed repairs to the ship.

Or perhaps instead of seemingly have everything looking brand new each episode, we see a progression of repairs. So one week the hull is still badly damaged, the following episode less so.
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