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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old July 5 2013, 07:11 PM   #16
Sindatur
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Re: Why hasn't CBS or Paramount just taken over a fan series or two?

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
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Of Gods and Men was great fan Service, and great fun, but, it lacked a "Leading Man" (Or woman) personality to carry the movie. It was like a bunch of little vignettes with Character Actors. Like I said, it was great fun, but, certainly not saleable to the General Audience, who lack the nostalgia we have.

I haven't seen any Phase 2, but if it or Renegades has the same issues, they're no more salesable to the General Audience and therefore, would hold no attraction to CBS
Well, whether our script is written by David Gerrold, or Dorothy Fontana, or by any of our writers, we try not to do lots of little little vignettes strung together to make an episode (although we have done short 5-minute-long stand-alone vignettes from time to time). Generally our full hour-long episodes follow a traditional TOS story structure involving the main characters of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

A typical example is our Hugo Award- and Nebula Award-nominated episode "World Enough and Time" with George Takei reprising his role of Sulu (and Grace Lee Whitney as Rand):
I'm a completist , so, I actually am intending to watch them all. Do you start with Episode 4x01 (IE: Star Trek 4th Season) or is 4x what you're currently up to? I googled Videos and saw several 4x, but, nothing earlier
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Old July 5 2013, 07:31 PM   #17
Ketrick
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Re: Why hasn't CBS or Paramount just taken over a fan series or two?

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Ooooo! Being replaced by Manny Coto would be delightful! Only when I am out on my ear will our fan series become really good and popular!

(For what it's worth, we've recently brought Mr. David Gerrold onboard as our "show runner.)
Lol! I actually think you and the others in charge of Phase II have done an excellent job and that's why I wish CBS would just make Phase II an official series. I wasn't talking about having you or anyone else replaced, just having CBS put in their "man". Now, I didn't know y'all had brought David Gerrold in to be "show runner". So, no offence to Manny Coto, but it sounds like you already have someone who will do and has already done an awesome job. I just hope CBS would accept him and keep him on. I know I would.
Can the fans produce 20 episodes a year? Would they quit their day jobs? Are they even members of the relevant unions? Would the show even be that cheap once everyone involved is paid the union wage? And does either show have the us fan base in the millions that CBS would look for? What's your elevator pitch to moonves?
You make some good points. As far as the unions go, I have no clue honestly. Also, I don't know if they could produce 20 episodes a year. Then again, a new Trek series might be better off with 13-15 episodes a year anyway and with CBS help and backing, I think the fans could pull that off.

While, Phase II and/or Continues may not have a fan base in the millions (I don't know the actual numbers, but I do know at least Phase II is quite popular.), they already have an established fan base and if they were brought to tv, an even large fan base would come out to check out any new Trek series anyway. Plus there would be the simply curious. So if you combine all of them you would have millions of viewers.

Another thing, by using an already established fan series, CBS would save money on sets and costumes.
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Old July 5 2013, 07:32 PM   #18
Nerys Myk
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Re: Why hasn't CBS or Paramount just taken over a fan series or two?

Its not bad, but the three leads are the weakest acting links. "Spock" seems to be channeling Tim Russ more than Leonard Nimoy. Cawley's no leading man and the guy playing McCoy is just awful.
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Old July 5 2013, 07:35 PM   #19
GSchnitzer
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Re: Why hasn't CBS or Paramount just taken over a fan series or two?

Sindatur wrote: View Post
GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
Of Gods and Men was great fan Service, and great fun, but, it lacked a "Leading Man" (Or woman) personality to carry the movie. It was like a bunch of little vignettes with Character Actors. Like I said, it was great fun, but, certainly not saleable to the General Audience, who lack the nostalgia we have.

I haven't seen any Phase 2, but if it or Renegades has the same issues, they're no more salesable to the General Audience and therefore, would hold no attraction to CBS
Well, whether our script is written by David Gerrold, or Dorothy Fontana, or by any of our writers, we try not to do lots of little little vignettes strung together to make an episode (although we have done short 5-minute-long stand-alone vignettes from time to time). Generally our full hour-long episodes follow a traditional TOS story structure involving the main characters of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

A typical example is our Hugo Award- and Nebula Award-nominated episode "World Enough and Time" with George Takei reprising his role of Sulu (and Grace Lee Whitney as Rand):
I'm a completist , so, I actually am intending to watch them all. Do you start with Episode 4x01 (IE: Star Trek 4th Season) or is 4x what you're currently up to? I googled Videos and saw several 4x, but, nothing earlier
Our growth curve has been fairly dramatic--the downside of which is that our ealiest effort or two are, hmm, an acquired taste, I guess. (They are like our developmentally-disabled children: we love them no matter what.) You can start chronologically, bu don't be so put off that that you refrain from watching our later, better efforts. On the other hand, if you start with our better episodes, don't be disappointed that they all aren't that good (or "good").

Yes, the conceit of our series is that we are like the fourth season of TOS, so all the episodes are labeled with "4x." Note: our first episode, "Come What May," is "4x0," so it's harder to find and we don't draw too much attention to it.

Wikipedia lists all our episodes. It's fairly accurate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...yages_episodes

Or PM me. I'm always glad to introduce people to our crazy litle production.
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Old July 5 2013, 07:56 PM   #20
Ketrick
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Re: Why hasn't CBS or Paramount just taken over a fan series or two?

Tom wrote: View Post
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R. Star wrote: View Post

That's kinda what they're hoping will happen with Star Trek Renegades. Stands a slightly better chance of being taken over anyways since it involves some of the actors from the various shows.
True, however, if Renegades special effects are anything like Of Gods and Men's, I doubt it. Phase II and Continues have far better special effects than OGAM did.
As Doc Brown would say "Your not thinking fourth dimensionally!"

Ogam was shot in 2006, the effects were a little bit dodgy, but compare it to New Voyages in 2006, they are roughly on par with OGAM. So now 7 years later, Renegades will have amazing VFX, we have 3 separate companies working on it. 2 of those companies are also doing effects for P2 and Continues. Renegades shares a pretty close nit relationship with 'Continues', many on our crew are also doing some work with 'Continues' also.

BTW, like your screen name
I'm glad to hear Renegades will have better effects. Though, perhaps I should explain my main problem with the special effects on OGAM which was that it was clear that objects like the Enterprise B and other ships were computer-generated. They had a very inauthentic look. Contrariwise, while the special effects in the early episodes of The New Voyages/Phase II were a bit dodgy in some respects (the Enterprise doing loop-de-loops, the Doomsday Machine), for the most part everything looked like TOS.

Btw, other than my quibbles with the special effects and a few elements of the epilogue, I loved OGAM. The plot was very good, on the level of official Star Trek episodes and movies (actually above the level of some episodes like Spock's Brain). I wish Paramount or CBS had gone to the trouble to produce something as good as OGAM for the fortieth anniversary of Star Trek. Also, thanks for complimenting my screen name.
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Old July 5 2013, 08:05 PM   #21
AviTrek
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Re: Why hasn't CBS or Paramount just taken over a fan series or two?

Ketrick wrote: View Post
AviTrek wrote: View Post
Ketrick wrote: View Post

Lol! I actually think you and the others in charge of Phase II have done an excellent job and that's why I wish CBS would just make Phase II an official series. I wasn't talking about having you or anyone else replaced, just having CBS put in their "man". Now, I didn't know y'all had brought David Gerrold in to be "show runner". So, no offence to Manny Coto, but it sounds like you already have someone who will do and has already done an awesome job. I just hope CBS would accept him and keep him on. I know I would.
Can the fans produce 20 episodes a year? Would they quit their day jobs? Are they even members of the relevant unions? Would the show even be that cheap once everyone involved is paid the union wage? And does either show have the us fan base in the millions that CBS would look for? What's your elevator pitch to moonves?
You make some good points. As far as the unions go, I have no clue honestly. Also, I don't know if they could produce 20 episodes a year. Then again, a new Trek series might be better off with 13-15 episodes a year anyway and with CBS help and backing, I think the fans could pull that off.

While, Phase II and/or Continues may not have a fan base in the millions (I don't know the actual numbers, but I do know at least Phase II is quite popular.), they already have an established fan base and if they were brought to tv, an even large fan base would come out to check out any new Trek series anyway. Plus there would be the simply curious. So if you combine all of them you would have millions of viewers.

Another thing, by using an already established fan series, CBS would save money on sets and costumes.
20 or 13 doesn't matter. Can fans go from 1+ year per episode to even 13 a year? What assurance could you give CBS of that before they agreed to anything? And the phase 2 fan base is star trek fans. You'd get them to check out a new show even without the phase 2 name. So what does phase 2 bring to CBS? Some D list actors and sets designed to look like the 60s? Don't get me wrong, I like phase 2 for what it is and have watched all the episodes. But it brings no value to CBS compared with starting from scratch.

What's your elevator pitch? A couple thousand fans won't cut it.
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Old July 5 2013, 08:10 PM   #22
Sindatur
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Re: Why hasn't CBS or Paramount just taken over a fan series or two?

First step of the Elevator pitch to Moonves for a New Trek Series is to ensure the elevator is at least 10 floors before the floor you plan on pitching Moonves into it
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Old July 5 2013, 09:03 PM   #23
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Re: Why hasn't CBS or Paramount just taken over a fan series or two?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Its not bad, but the three leads are the weakest acting links. "Spock" seems to be channeling Tim Russ more than Leonard Nimoy. Cawley's no leading man and the guy playing McCoy is just awful.
Well, our Mister Spock role has been filled by Mr. Jeffery Quinn, followed by Mr. Ben Tolpin, and now followed by Mr. Brandon Stacy (who was Mr. Zachary Quinto's stand-in for both Star Trek and Star Trek Into Darkness). Which of these three actors did you mean is (or was) channelling Tim Russ more than Leonard Nimoy? Have they all been doing that? A reminder that for every viewer who says "your actor is not enough like Actor X," there is a viewer that says "your actor is just trying to channel and is trying too hard to be like Actor X."

"James Cawley is no leading man" is quite an indictment on his acting ability. Nevertheless, Mr. James Cawley has stepped away from the role of Captain James Kirk to focus in his Senior Executive Producer duties. For our past two episodes (and one vignette) that we've shot, Captain Kirk is now portrayed by Mr. Brian Gross. Find more about his credits here:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0343336/

Our Dr. McCoy is played by John Kelley, a real-life physician in Oregon. He is awful, and we plan on replacing him at our earliest opportunity.













(Just teasing, Doc John. We love you and we all know how much you have grown into the role over the ten years that you've held it.)


At Nerys Myk: can you provide a bit more data for us to work with--especially regarding Doc John? All I'm able to inform our actor in the McCoy role is "please be less awful." It would be good to be able to say "don't mumble so much," or "don't limp so much" or "don't keep looking at the camera so much," or some other helpful feedback. How does Doc John's "awfulness" manifest itself?
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Old July 5 2013, 09:42 PM   #24
Nerys Myk
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Re: Why hasn't CBS or Paramount just taken over a fan series or two?

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Its not bad, but the three leads are the weakest acting links. "Spock" seems to be channeling Tim Russ more than Leonard Nimoy. Cawley's no leading man and the guy playing McCoy is just awful.
Well, our Mister Spock role has been filled by Mr. Jeffery Quinn, followed by Mr. Ben Tolpin, and now followed by Mr. Brandon Stacy (who was Mr. Zachary Quinto's stand-in for both Star Trek and Star Trek Into Darkness). Which of these three actors did you mean is (or was) channelling Tim Russ more than Leonard Nimoy? Have they all been doing that? A reminder that for every viewer who says "your actor is not enough like Actor X," there is a viewer that says "your actor is just trying to channel and is trying too hard to be like Actor X."

"James Cawley is no leading man" is quite an indictment on his acting ability. Nevertheless, Mr. James Cawley has stepped away from the role of Captain James Kirk to focus in his Senior Executive Producer duties. For our past two episodes (and one vignette) that we've shot, Captain Kirk is now portrayed by Mr. Brian Gross. Find more about his credits here:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0343336/

Our Dr. McCoy is played by John Kelley, a real-life physician in Oregon. He is awful, and we plan on replacing him at our earliest opportunity.













(Just teasing, Doc John. We love you and we all know how much you have grown into the role over the ten years that you've held it.)


At Nerys Myk: can you provide a bit more data for us to work with--especially regarding Doc John? All I'm able to inform our actor in the McCoy role is "please be less awful." It would be good to be able to say "don't mumble so much," or "don't limp so much" or "don't keep looking at the camera so much," or some other helpful feedback. How does Doc John's "awfulness" manifest itself?
I was refering to the episode you linked to in your post above. (Though I have watched a few episodes with the other Spocks.) The voice and inflections that actor used reminded me of Russ' Tuvok. Nimoy and Quinto have something in their performances that gives Spock a hint of humanity, the actor in World Enough and Time does not. Tuvok, being a full Vulcan probably doesn't need that, Spock does. Unlike some, I'm not interested in seeing an actor ( be they in a fan or pro production) do impersonations of the original actor, but they do need to capture the essence of the character. Jeffery Quinn failed to do so.

James Cawley also failed to capture Kirk the way Shatner and Pine did. Nothing made me believe he was the commander of a Starship. His gestures and body language are too self conscious and you can see him acting rather than being Jim Kirk.

As for John Kelley, his McCoy is all squints and grimaces. There's none of the sparkle in the eye or compassion that De brought to the part. He might make a good Doctor Piper though.

On the up side I liked the actors who played young Sulu, Alana and Dr. Chandris.
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Old July 5 2013, 10:27 PM   #25
marksound
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Re: Why hasn't CBS or Paramount just taken over a fan series or two?

The answer to the original question is this: If CBS wanted a Star Trek series, they'd have one. They would not ever go to an amateur production.

And turning a fan production into a CBS produced series would negate the fan aspect of it. The fans would go off and do their own thing again, just like they've always done.
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Old July 5 2013, 11:24 PM   #26
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Re: Why hasn't CBS or Paramount just taken over a fan series or two?

I really don't want fans in charge of anything. No disrespect intended towards those who work on Trek fan-films.
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Old July 5 2013, 11:47 PM   #27
Elim Garakov
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Re: Why hasn't CBS or Paramount just taken over a fan series or two?

I have a really dumb question to ask; why hasn't CBS cracked down on fan films?
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Old July 5 2013, 11:52 PM   #28
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Re: Why hasn't CBS or Paramount just taken over a fan series or two?

Sindatur wrote: View Post
First step of the Elevator pitch to Moonves for a New Trek Series is to ensure the elevator is at least 10 floors before the floor you plan on pitching Moonves into it
Dr Pulaski in "LA Law", eh?

Elim Garakov wrote: View Post
I have a really dumb question to ask; why hasn't CBS cracked down on fan films?
Fanfilms are the new fanzines. Begrudging acceptance of their existence... because they benefit the parent production in the longterm. So long as no one profits from them, or deliberately rips off the fans, fan productions are tolerated because they are seen as many people's introduction to the franchise. The unique successes and benefits of ST fanzines have been acknowledged in Paramount publicity materials to the media since before TMP.

Lucasfilm tried to close all "Star Wars" fanzines in the late 70s, and it was counter productive in the longterm.
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Old July 6 2013, 12:36 AM   #29
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Re: Why hasn't CBS or Paramount just taken over a fan series or two?

Elim Garakov wrote: View Post
I have a really dumb question to ask; why hasn't CBS cracked down on fan films?
Why?

It's the same as free advertising. As long as the fans aren't making a profit from CBS intellectual property all it does is benefit the franchise as a whole.

And if something pops up that is potentially harmful to the franchise, they're on it like a duck on a junebug.

Much cheaper that way.
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Old July 6 2013, 02:49 AM   #30
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Re: Why hasn't CBS or Paramount just taken over a fan series or two?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
So long as no one profits from them, or deliberately rips off the fans, fan productions are tolerated because they are seen as many people's introduction to the franchise.
Well, that's not exactly correct.

Fan films are not allowed to make any money whatsoever, not just money that results in a profit. If it costs about $50,000.00 to make an episode, it might be construed that CBS becomes concerned only when we have earned $50,000.01--a one cent profit above our costs to produce it. That's not correct: we're not allowed to make any money whatsoever. Our top line must be zero, not just our bottom line.
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