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Old July 4 2013, 07:03 PM   #136
Deckerd
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

It's fairly safe to say that anyone who thinks the bible is an accurate historical record has never had to think very hard about anything beyond what clothes to wear in the morning.
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Old July 4 2013, 09:34 PM   #137
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Tora Ziyal wrote: View Post
To a Biblical literalist, contradictions are necessarily something to be danced around, explained away, and denied at all costs.
Do you mean something like this?

RyanKCR wrote: View Post
I never understood this. There are no different orders of creation listed in Genesis.
RyanKCR wrote: View Post
I don't see a contradiction.
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Old July 4 2013, 09:53 PM   #138
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

scotpens wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
The real question is why science rejects the idea of God in the first place.
Science doesn't "reject" God any more than it rejects the plays of Shakespeare. To science, religion is simply irrelevant. Science and religion work different sides of the street.
Indeed. Science doesn't care about God one way or another. Science can only work with observable evidence, so until God gives us some, Science really can't be bothered to worry about him. If one day we find actual, hard proof of God's existence, that will definitely start being included in our scientific understanding of the universe.

People are free to believe what they want, as long as they acknowledge that it's a belief. No amount of faith can prove the existence of God. Likewise, no amount of science can disprove the existence of God (at least not with our current understanding of how things work).
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Old July 4 2013, 11:09 PM   #139
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

What really bothers me about the whole Creationism/Intelligent Design issue is that they have to sneak it into schools. They have to gloss over it and present it like you would an infomercial, complete with fake smiles, false dichotomies, and exaggerated numbers.

"Oh, no sir! This isn't pseudoscience cloaked in Christian theology, mercy, no! This is something entirely different! This is Christian theology cloaked in pseudoscience!"
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Old July 4 2013, 11:29 PM   #140
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Instead of "creation vs evolution," which will never be settled in our lifetimes, why not take a look at a conversation between reasonable people about good vs. evil?

Evil, Religion, and Responsibility
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Old July 4 2013, 11:34 PM   #141
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Instead of "creation vs evolution," which will never be settled in our lifetimes, why not take a look at a conversation between reasonable people about good vs. evil?
You seem to think there is some grand debate between Creationism and Evolution, and there simply isn't. Creationism is taught by fundamentalists, in a dying sect of Protestant Christianity. One that must continue to insist on an unchanging past.

Evolution is a scientific Theory based on widespread evidence and support; one that can be adjusted when necessary to accommodate new data. It is a living, breathing thing.

That's Glenn Beck, so no. The man has a reputation for being a liar, and a fraud. He is not a reasonable person, and he cannot be trusted, regardless of who he may have on his program.
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Old July 4 2013, 11:43 PM   #142
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

I was expecting that reaction, so does that make you a closed-minded person? Unwilling to even listen to another viewpoint? A prejudice against someone you know only by reputation prevents you from hearing what other people on the program have to say?

Penn Jillette is an unabashed atheist, but he is willing to sit and have a discussion with people he respects.
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Old July 4 2013, 11:45 PM   #143
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

You would have to include some Muslims in the group that believes in creationism, J Allen though I think most of them believe in an old Earth but refuse to believe that animals, especially Man, have changed since the time of creation.

Last edited by Miss Chicken; July 5 2013 at 12:03 AM.
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Old July 4 2013, 11:53 PM   #144
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Instead of "creation vs evolution," which will never be settled in our lifetimes
Actually, that's already been settled. You simply refuse to acknowledge science because it conflicts with your religion. Are you gonna argue "Flat earth vs. Round earth", too? Because that has as much credibility as "creation vs. evolution".

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Penn Jillette is an unabashed atheist, but he is willing to sit and have a discussion with people he respects.
"People I respect" includes a whole bunch of religious people, but not Young Earth creationists. They are just nuts.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:01 AM   #145
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

What I don't understand is why Creationism is even 'on the table' as far as adult discussions about the nature of the universe go?

There are plenty of possibilities and to be fair there's a lot more unknown currently than known, I just don't know why we can't just admit there are massive gaps in our knowledge that we one day hope to fill, instead of making something ridiculous up instead.

Don't get me wrong, if we really dig deep and in the future discover some supreme being created everything then great, if anything that's one of the more optimistic and interesting possibilities. But until there's a shred of evidence even hinting at this possibility, why not just shelve it along with other superstitions like walking under a ladder or the number 13.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:03 AM   #146
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
I was expecting that reaction, so does that make you a closed-minded person? Unwilling to even listen to another viewpoint? A prejudice against someone you know only by reputation prevents you from hearing what other people on the program have to say?

Penn Jillette is an unabashed atheist, but he is willing to sit and have a discussion with people he respects.
You mistake my unwillingness to listen to a known fraud, and purveyor of grand conspiracies, as unwillingness to listen to a different viewpoint. Glenn Beck is a conspiracy theorist, similar to the likes of Alex Jones. He doesn't have a factual bone in his body, and makes his living serving up paranoid delusions in exchange for advertising and merchandise money.

As for Penn Jillette, I am quite familiar with him, and I respect him. That doesn't mean I'm always going to agree with him, and if you know anything about Penn Jillette, you would know that's the way he prefers it.

Miss Chicken wrote: View Post
You would have to include some Muslims in the group that believes in creationism, J Allen.
True, there are some Muslim groups who support Creationism like fundamentalist Christians do, but the Intelligent Design movement is helmed almost entirely by Christian groups. Still, you make a fair point.

SonOfMogh wrote: View Post
What I don't understand is why Creationism is even 'on the table' as far as adult discussions about the nature of the universe go?

There are plenty of possibilities and to be fair there's a lot more unknown currently than known, I just don't know why we can't just admit there are massive gaps in our knowledge that we one day hope to fill, instead of making something ridiculous up instead.

Don't get me wrong, if we really dig deep and in the future discover some supreme being created everything then great, if anything that's one of the more optimistic and interesting possibilities. But until there's a shred of evidence even hinting at this possibility, why not just shelve it along with other superstitions like walking under a ladder or the number 13.
There are religions that cannot abide by others not believing in their theology. It is in their doctrine that ALL must hear, and in the case of fundamentalist Christianity (and Islam), if the people won't hear it, then they will be forced to hear it, if it has to be crammed into every science classroom in America. The reason this is, is because science requires critical thinking, and fundamentalist religions cannot abide critical thinking. If you think critically, you've broken the spell, and you're no longer under the thumb of that particular religion's hierarchy of authority, and that just will not do. So replacing critical thinking with unquestioning acceptance is the goal. That is why they target the science class.

There is no real debate.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:05 AM   #147
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
I was expecting that reaction, so does that make you a closed-minded person? Unwilling to even listen to another viewpoint? A prejudice against someone you know only by reputation prevents you from hearing what other people on the program have to say?
glenn beck. he was fired for being too nuts even for fox news.

i've seen some of his stuff. nowadays he makes his money telling scare stories to gullible people for money on the internet.

and that's not prejudice. that's factually what he does. but then facts are your enemy it seems.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:07 AM   #148
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Why don't they see that, if God existed, that Evolution, the result of random gene mutation, would be just one part of the Almighty's big tool box? If he created the universe, he set all the rules. Speed of light, gravity, time, strings, quarks, protons, neutrons, electrons, atoms, molecules, particle decay, radiation, it all works according to a strict set of rules. And evolution is the result of all that. If there is a God, he probably made all those rules. And then hit the 'Start' Button and enjoyed watching how it all unfolds. Not much unlike a programmer who created a simulation.

Isn't that enough?

I don't get why it's such an aggressive "either-or" debate when both could be true.

If one believes in a god, shouldn't evolution act as evidence for how wonderful and complex that god is?

Is it really that important to people that everything happened literally as described in the Bible?
Creationists are not afraid of evolution. They just realize that evolution is unscientific. Speciation is true, observable science, but evolution (the idea that non-life became life on the early life and then evolved over billions of years to become man) is not. We can't jump in a time machine and observe evolution happening, and any 'facts' of evolution, such as DNA, the fossil record, morphology, etc., must be subjectively interpreted (the facts don't speak for themselves), and could just as easily (actually, easier) be interpreted in a Biblical, creationist way.

There are plenty of websites which show the fallacies of evolution, and there are over 100 young earth/universe evidences. An objective person sees that these evidences indicate a young earth and that evolution therefore could not have happened.

The core problem is that the Bible is a major issue for a lot of people. The Christian God is unacceptable, and so of course evolution must be true. For those who accept evolution and God's existence, for some reason a Creator God Who created in six days is unacceptable.

I don't see how the glory of God is shown in millions of years of animal death culminating in the evolution of man, but everyone's entitled to an opinion. I think God's glory is clearly better shown in His creation of a sinless, perfect universe---which only became subject to death and futility after sin was committed, an act by free humans.

Go to creation.com (look up "101 evidences for a young earth" and "It's not science") for more information on what I wrote above. You can also research a great deal of other topics.

Scienceagainstevolution.org is another great site which shows the copious holes in evolution. Again, speciation is true, but this doesn't prove or imply evolution in any way. There is much observational science which shows that evolution is false. It is not surprising at all that large numbers of scientists in our day are abandoning it.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:08 AM   #149
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

True, there are some Muslim groups who support Creationism like fundamentalist Christians do, but the Intelligent Design movement is helmed almost entirely by Christian groups. Still, you make a fair point.
I changed my previous post to make it clear that Muslim creationists tend to believe in an old Earth but an old Earth untouched by evolution (or at least by 'macroevolution'). There is a Turkish creationist who has managed to get Richard Dawkin's banned in Turkey.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:08 AM   #150
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

SonOfMogh wrote: View Post
What I don't understand is why Creationism is even 'on the table' as far as adult discussions about the nature of the universe go?

There are plenty of possibilities and to be fair there's a lot more unknown currently than known, I just don't know why we can't just admit there are massive gaps in our knowledge that we one day hope to fill, instead of making something ridiculous up instead.

Don't get me wrong, if we really dig deep and in the future discover some supreme being created everything then great, if anything that's one of the more optimistic and interesting possibilities. But until there's a shred of evidence even hinting at this possibility, why not just shelve it along with other superstitions like walking under a ladder or the number 13.
It's what will happen when you accept a belief that all opinions are equally valid. However, I agree with Asimov that someone's opinion from ignorance is not equal to another's informed opinion.
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