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Old July 3 2013, 01:35 PM   #361
Redfern
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Donny? You have the patience of a saint!

While it's great we have people who are so "knowledgable" about the designs and are so willing to "share" that information, there comes a point of diminishing returns for the effort put into "revisions". I fear I would be several factors past the point of, "That's it! Here are the tools and files; you do it!"

I'm simply content to sit back and gaze wistfully as you continue to post material that could easily convince the casual viewer they are looking at photographs of standing sets.

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old July 3 2013, 02:32 PM   #362
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

^^^ Agreed. These are, by far, the best renderings I've ever seen of these old halls. The lighting is perfect, the layout is brilliant and I simply cannot wait to get a hold of this thing to walk around in.
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Old July 3 2013, 03:35 PM   #363
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Hear, hear! You've certainly raised the bar.

--Alex
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Old July 3 2013, 06:51 PM   #364
Donny
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Redfern wrote: View Post
Donny? You have the patience of a saint!

While it's great we have people who are so "knowledgable" about the designs and are so willing to "share" that information, there comes a point of diminishing returns for the effort put into "revisions". I fear I would be several factors past the point of, "That's it! Here are the tools and files; you do it!"
Nah, I'm enjoying all the input. I've never worked in such a way before, and having the extra eyes, mouths, and minds helps drive me to create a better product.

However, it does seem that some of the more conjectural pieces I include in the project will raise some eyebrows. At the end of the day, although I take in and listen to the differing views, I have to remember that it is my project, and those conjectural pieces will be my artistic mark.

I'm finding it increasingly difficult, however, to stay true to the "End of Season 3" rule, and will have to change that rule into more of a guideline. Obviously, there isn't enough time in the world for me to create more variations of these sets in their entirety for every difference we find between the sets from episode to episode. But there are also "set pieces", like the mirror from the exam room featured in "The Deadly Years", that I feel compelled to include due to the novelty of such items. I personally feel these rendering would be incomplete without such novelty items, despite their happenstance absence from some Season 3 episodes.

Therefore, my new rule is that this project is set during a conjectural "Season 4", or "Year 4 of the 5 Year Mission", and that any differences from the late Season 3 sets we can justify by saying that "it got changed before the production of Season 4", for lack of a better way to say it. (Hey, at least I'm not invoking Abrams' alternate universe justification, where everything could go out the window!) Everyone please know that I will not abuse this new rule, and will continue to stay as true to the source material as possible.

This seems to be the best solution to make myself and others happy.
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Old July 3 2013, 08:13 PM   #365
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Donny wrote: View Post
Therefore, my new rule is that this project is set during a conjectural "Season 4", or "Year 4 of the 5 Year Mission", and that any differences from the late Season 3 sets we can justify by saying that "it got changed before the production of Season 4", for lack of a better way to say it.

Setting things in a conjectural fourth season? Welcome, Mr. Versiga; it will be nice to have the company.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Well, the second bed doesn't have a bedside swing-arm monitor, either, in "Return to Tomorrow." They had pull it off the set to make room for Thalassa's receptacle. Hmmm: maybe this whole episode takes place in yet another Sick Bay!
Or this is a foretaste of the upcoming Season Three? First, the second bed doesn't have the swing-arm monitor and eventually the first bed will also be without it.
@Robert Comsol:
I don't think it's quite as simple as a slow loss of the bedside swing-arm monitors during the run of the show. Yes, the swing-arm is lost from the second bed in second season's "Return to Tomorrow," but then it's back again in the third season's "Elaan of Troyius."
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Old July 3 2013, 10:25 PM   #366
Donny
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

I was going to refrain from posting WIP shots, but after my experience with having to make so many corrections after I'd posted what was supposed to be the "final" shots of the ward room, I don't think withholding WIP shots is a good idea.

Here's a very early WIP shot of McCoy's office. You'll notice I still have lots of props to place on the shelves. I'm going to have to sculpt the alien skulls by hand in ZBrush (which worries me because I have yet to use Zbrush!), since I doubt I'll be able to find skull meshes quite like those for download somewhere online.


The "Journey To Babel" stage 9 plan is incorrect when it comes to the office. It has the shelf walls behind the desk jutting too far out. I struggled a lot with this while constructing the walls last night, and tried to get it as accurate as possible.

I think I have collected every single screencap of the office through the series, but can't find anything in-focus and close-up on those greenish frame-boards hanging in the alcove. They appear to have scalpels and surgical scissors hanging on them, but I'm not sure. Anyone have any info? GSchnitzer? feek61?
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Old July 3 2013, 10:46 PM   #367
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine


I like what they've done to this sculpture here. It appears they've used the surgical instruments from Space Seed and mounted them on boards similar to the greenish ones in question. Any thoughts?
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Old July 3 2013, 11:31 PM   #368
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

I never noticed the top corners of those recessed shelves were rounded! So much of TOS set design is sharp edged that it made me go "Huh?" for a moment. But the TekCore screen capture you linked show them plain as day!

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old July 4 2013, 12:26 AM   #369
Ziz
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Donny wrote: View Post
GSchnitzer wrote:
In all these shots, Donny, on both the Examination Room side, and the Ward Room side, I'm feeling like it's a tiny bit dark--like we are in Sick Bay on the night shift. I might pop up the lighting a tiny bit--but I'm not really sure how this gets rendered in-game, so maybe the lighting is actually perfect. But my feeling as I sit and look at in on my monitor is that it's a little dark.
This is a very important topic. I have a tendency, in all my CG work, to keep lighting low and moody and full of shadows. When I first started making game environments 15 odd years ago, much of the user-made content being released suffered from poor, under-thought, over-bright, washed-out lighting. I offered the alternative to that and always strived to not have my work suffer from the same. Therefore, I chose to use moody, darker lighting in my game environments, and was applauded for it.

Sometimes, however, I overdo the dark moodiness, such as in the ward-room shots I posted above. For that reason, I definitely do need everyone to point it out when it may seem my work is looking too dark.
Two thoughts on this -

1) GSchnitzer and Donny most likely have different monitors and video cards and obviously different eyes (as do the rest of us who comment on lighting/coloring issues.) That in itself is going to result in the image looking brighter/darker/different tones to each person making the whole issue subjective to start with.

2) Re: Donny's focus on moody lighting - there's two reasons most CG; both video game and FX in films; look the way they do -
A) Inexperienced CG artists who haven't learned the art of subtlety
B) Egotistical CG artists who are trying to show off their work instead of making it look the way it's supposed to.

Forunately, Donny's aware of this and is trying to avoid making the same mistakes.
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Old July 4 2013, 12:33 AM   #370
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Donny wrote: View Post
Therefore, my new rule is that this project is set during a conjectural "Season 4", or "Year 4 of the 5 Year Mission", and that any differences from the late Season 3 sets we can justify by saying that "it got changed before the production of Season 4", for lack of a better way to say it.
...
This seems to be the best solution to make myself and others happy.
That's a good idea to adapt that rule as it'll make it easier for you to determine what your final product will be.

As to those green artpieces on the wall they look like fabric framed with scalpels and cutting instruments. So absent of a close-up or the actual prop your guess will be just as good, IMO.
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Old July 4 2013, 07:10 AM   #371
Donny
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
As to those green artpieces on the wall they look like fabric framed with scalpels and cutting instruments. So absent of a close-up or the actual prop your guess will be just as good, IMO.
I can see it now. I'm going to do all this work to get those scalpels and instruments modeled based on some fuzzy screencaps, texture them, light them, get em up on the wall, post some screens, and then someone will unearth some long-forgotten image of those things up-close, and the perfectionist I am will have to start all over to get it accurate...

...my worst nightmare...
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Old July 4 2013, 07:50 AM   #372
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine



You don't want to know how many revisions I've done to my stuff

But, I wouldn't worry too much of it as your best guess is still well ahead of anything else out there.
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Old July 4 2013, 08:13 AM   #373
Donny
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Here's what I have to work with...

I can definitely make out that some of the tools featured on the "Space Seed" board are present in the CMO office boards as well.

Man, the set dressers sure couldn't get their stuff straight! It appears the boards swapped places and/or flipped vertically a few times!

UPDATE:
I've messed around and tried fitting some of the tools from the "Space Seed Surgical Tool Board" over the shapes on the "CMO Office Surgical Tool Boards". Actually, things turned out nicely. The results are below:

First, the version from "Space Seed":







So, I will probably end up going in this direction.
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Old July 4 2013, 12:35 PM   #374
Robert Comsol
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

The amount of forensic work you devote to the project is amazing, you go where no (or only few) "fan" has gone before according to my knowledge.

I don't know what you will (if you want) do about those Season Three Mike Minor paintings that decorated vaious walls. The one with the "red pyramid" had been reprinted in Starlog magazine but that's only one of a dozen.

Donny wrote: View Post
The "Journey To Babel" stage 9 plan is incorrect when it comes to the office. It has the shelf walls behind the desk jutting too far out. I struggled a lot with this while constructing the walls last night, and tried to get it as accurate as possible.
Yes. For my deck plans I corrected the shelf wall, too, but - if I'm not mistaken - we both realized a problem: Aligning the office table with the door frame puts the chair and its user in a rather tight spot which somehow isn't what we see onscreen.

I really don't know what's the story behind these incorrect Stage 9 plan "reproductions" because the office flaw also shows up in the other "blurred" variation (probably "Season Three") of the plan (with the large GNDNs in the engine room and a transporter console) published in The Making of Star Trek, but want to offer a theory:
  • what we have here is not a set construction blueprint with measurements
  • it is apparently a reproduction of the original construction blueprint that also reveals the infrastructure and space available on Stage 9. What it shows foremost are the location of swing walls
  • thus it's probably an orientation sheet sent in advance to the directors to familiarize themselves in advance with the shooting set and show them options (i.e. which walls can be removed for shooting and which ones can't) to plan ahead
  • we also know today that this wasn't sufficient. Matt Jefferies spent extra time on his weekends (talk about devotion to the job) to construct a physical 3D model made from paper to "walk" the directors through this set.
  • unfortunately, his model is apparently based on the Season Three set reproduction and also has the office "flaw".
If the doors of the sickbay set featured in those reproductions have the correct positions, I can only assume that the actual doctor's office was wider than those reproductions want to make us believe. This is definitely a riddle I'd like to see resolved before even thinking of final CAD deck plans in 2D.

Whom you gonna call? I think this an opportunity for studio set specialists like feek61 and Mytran to let us know what they think.

Bob
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Old July 4 2013, 02:03 PM   #375
Mytran
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

I'm on a bit of hiatus from Trek-things for the next fortnight, but it'll be something to investigate once I'm free again. However, McCoy's desk is clearly placed further into the room than the deckplans show
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