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Old July 4 2013, 01:33 AM   #1
davidant32
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Riley Frazier

I'm referring to the 3x17 episode "Unity." Wouldn't you think she would jump at the extremely unlikely chance of being rescued by a Federation starship? It hadn't been that long since Wolf 359.

If not that, wouldn't she be duty-bound to go with the Voyager crew? I mean, she never officially resigned from Starfleet and by her not going with Voyager, I would think of her as a deserter.

Opinions?
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Old July 4 2013, 01:44 AM   #2
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Re: Riley Frazier

I don't think Janeway would have trusted her, after that "brainwashing Chakotay to bend him to their will" thing, even if Riley tried to leave the collective after it was re-established.

And once she was in the collective, it would have been difficult for Janeway to separate her by force.

Recall, in season 4 Janeway didn't have to fight a collective to keep Seven on board, she only had to fight Seven.
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Old July 4 2013, 02:25 AM   #3
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Re: Riley Frazier

Given what happened to her, I don't think deserter is the right word for it. She was a victim of the Borg and had to make a new life for herself. Janeway offered to let her come back with Voyager but didn't order her to do so. She recognized that Riley and the other members of the Cooperative had established their own society on their planet and were better off continuing with their lives as they were.

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Old July 4 2013, 02:39 AM   #4
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Re: Riley Frazier

Are their Starfleet deserters? Can't you quit whenever you like? Or do you sign up for a set amount of years and are then legally bound to it?
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Old July 4 2013, 02:43 AM   #5
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Re: Riley Frazier

teacake wrote: View Post
Are their Starfleet deserters? Can't you quit whenever you like? Or do you sign up for a set amount of years and are then legally bound to it?
It's not really clear. We know that Spock and McCoy (and Kirk) left Starfleet for periods of time but returned later. Others like B'Elanna Torres quit the Academy but later had charges filed against them because they joined a known terrorist group. If I had to guess, I'd say that it doesn't matter if one quits as long as they go through the proper channels. If one goes AWOL and simply disappears, that's a different story.

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Old July 4 2013, 02:46 AM   #6
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Re: Riley Frazier

So it's all about paperwork.
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Old July 4 2013, 02:49 AM   #7
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Re: Riley Frazier

teacake wrote: View Post
So it's all about paperwork.
I would guess. I mean, I can't imagine that someone would be punished for leaving a position that he doesn't want to be in. That's not good for the person in question or for Starfleet. More oppressive governments on Romulus or Cardassia might have different rules, but the Federation seems to be okay with people coming and going as they please, as long as they don't break any rules in the process.

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Old July 4 2013, 01:22 PM   #8
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Re: Riley Frazier

Riley seemed to feel a strong obligation to help her group; she was needed there more than she was in Starfleet. Maybe if they were in the Alpha Quadrant where they could get help, she would have gone back to the service. But they were marooned.
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Old July 4 2013, 02:36 PM   #9
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Re: Riley Frazier

Marooned my ass.

If they started with just one working replicator in less than a year, even without Janeways help, they would have been building transwarp coils. Isn't it amazing that Seven never built a transwarp shuttle? Those Drones in ENT Regenerate figured it out pretty fucking quickly how to make a transwarp shuttle out of basically a dingy. It's almost like Seven didn't want to go home.

You've noticed that there are two sorts of Star Fleet Teacake?

Officers and Enlisted ranks.

In most of the current military, the average ratio of enlisted to officers is 9:1.

With automation in the future it is possible that less enlisted are needed, but I doubt it. Everything still needs to be swabbed and repainted continuously.

It's a question of training. 4 years in the Academy, only the best of the best to make an officer. 12 weeks in bootcamp, almost anyone, to make a yeoman or petty officer.

The enlisted do shit work, the officers tell the enlisted what shit work to do.

O'Brien "Don't call me sir! I work for a living!"

An Officer can resign their commission within certain limits. Not during war and not during a mission and not when they're doing something essential. It's pretty silly to force someone to be in a position where they have their finger on the button, but if the don't follow the correct exit protocol, its off to New Zealand for 20 years.

Enlisted ranks do probably sign a contract for a fixed duration, like in the real world, and then re-up or walk away. Why would anyone do that? I imagine that Starfleet looks fantastic on your resume if you want to do something of value in the private sector or for the government, and Starfleet if you work it right, is probably a superb technical college where you can walk out of it with magnificent degrees and qualifications, again which translate into being prime tottie on the job market. Remember no money, vs boredom, vs civic pride = the human philosophy to better themselves and therefore the entire species.

Lets just assume that a great government job, comes with a great house, meanwhile some who sits on their ass, is in a small box with a couple pads and a replicator... Which kinda does what money does with out money. Work = status, yet the lowest conceivable subsistence is still fantastic to stupid 21st century us... Who today wouldn't kill for a replicator, a couple padds and a box to sleep in?
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Old July 5 2013, 12:44 AM   #10
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Re: Riley Frazier

A box that comes with hot water and electricity. Yes there must be some status otherwise there would be no beach not covered in mansions. It's a shame all we see of future evolved humanity is on starships though, where the captain's quarters are smaller than an average apartment. Picard's estate doesn't count since that has been in the family through WWIII.

I believe there must be an underclass of creative and/or whacky drop outs who find having everything stifling, just as we have people today who find having everything (which we do) stifling. I want to know what the graffitti looks like in the 24th century on earth. I hope there is still yarn bombing.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:58 AM   #11
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Re: Riley Frazier

Bashir's dad tried and failed constantly at a variety of careers.

Education is free, but you still need the grades and a healthy respect for the waiting lists.

The further off world you get to find a school that will take you, the further away from the heart of the Federation, the closer you get to there being money and graft that the waiting lists can be compromised.

Also I'm guessing the shittier the colony you move to the bigger the box they give you until you prove your worth, and because of the lower population there's actually opportunity to prove your worth to earn yourself an even bigger box.

Transit is free, but then again the waiting lists must be long, even if there was a colony ship in TNG Ensigns of Command that could carry a hundred thousand people, which I'm guessing is is not a ship you want to take into battle or run any races in... The Federation still boasts a population into the hundreds of trillions.

Picard has two boxes. His quarters and his ready room.

His ready room is for convince. I wonder if he has a third box which is his actual office? Thinking he probably has a fourth box too if Enterprise came with a Captain's Mess... The Captain's Yacht is his 5th box... But still Jean-Luc needed to crawl into the vents to find somewhere private to play his little pipe.

Meanwhile consider how much a Federation trained/educated person would be worth on the open market as a worker to an alien government/alien business? Cassiday Yates went into work for herself but it's not like it must not have taken a while for her her to get to that point with her own ship?
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Old July 5 2013, 01:21 AM   #12
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Re: Riley Frazier

Bashir's dad was interested in status so I guess failing was a problem to him. Maybe you just don't get to interact with people socially outside of your place in evolved society. So all his friends on earth are a bunch of other wannabes living in their boxes without groupies.

I don't think Earth is that crowded. A lot of the population died off in WWIII and it takes a long time to rebreed that many. I assume they have immigration laws still otherwise they'd be flooded with folk from shittier planets looking for their own box with a view of the park.

I bet the back to the land movement is huge with people growing their own food.
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Old July 5 2013, 01:31 AM   #13
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Re: Riley Frazier

Sometimes I just want to shake Star Trek until it gives me the people I want.

WHO writes the graffiti? WHAT is it about? Is there still tagging?! Yarn bombing? Murals in the night?

If it's a world without such things I'd have to leave.
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Old July 5 2013, 01:46 AM   #14
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Re: Riley Frazier

teacake wrote: View Post
Bashir's dad was interested in status so I guess failing was a problem to him. Maybe you just don't get to interact with people socially outside of your place in evolved society. So all his friends on earth are a bunch of other wannabes living in their boxes without groupies.

I don't think Earth is that crowded. A lot of the population died off in WWIII and it takes a long time to rebreed that many. I assume they have immigration laws still otherwise they'd be flooded with folk from shittier planets looking for their own box with a view of the park.

I bet the back to the land movement is huge with people growing their own food.
No, the entire surface of Earth is one giant holodeck filled with refugees from all over the Federation. Everything is automated, everything is taken care of. Sisko's restaurant, the Picard vineyards, the Janeway farms in Indiana... all fake. People pretend to go about their business because the government pumps them full of drugs that make them forget the pointlessness of it all, to prevent mass suicides.

That's what Sisko meant by "paradise."
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Old July 5 2013, 01:48 AM   #15
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Re: Riley Frazier

None of that would surprise me.
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