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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old July 3 2013, 09:29 PM   #1
JRoss
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Just reread Dreadnaught!

Not nearly as good as I remember it when I was a kid. Carey's weird manifesto in the middle kinda derailed it for me. Believe what you want but please keep it out of Trek. What do y'all think?
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Old July 3 2013, 09:30 PM   #2
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Re: Just reread Dreadnaught!

Piper is the most obvious Mary Sue I have ever read. It's ridiculous, really.

What manifesto are you referring to, BTW?
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Old July 3 2013, 10:58 PM   #3
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Re: Just reread Dreadnaught!

Her whole spiel about Earth's history when she is talking to Sarda and explaining Rittenhouse to him.
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Old July 3 2013, 11:13 PM   #4
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Re: Just reread Dreadnaught!

JRoss wrote: View Post
Her whole spiel about Earth's history when she is talking to Sarda and explaining Rittenhouse to him.

Haven't read this one in many many years. Don't recall.much about that. Just the Mary Sue and tos wannabes
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Old July 3 2013, 11:51 PM   #5
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Re: Just reread Dreadnaught!

I still say that calling Piper a Mary Sue is misunderstanding the intent of the books she's in. A Mary Sue is a guest character that steals the spotlight from the heroes. But Piper wasn't the guest character in this novel -- she was the lead character, just as Calhoun is the lead of New Frontier, Reyes is the lead of Vanguard, Rugal is the lead of The Never Ending Sacrifice, etc. Dreadnought! was the first attempt to do the sort of thing that's since become commonplace, to explore the Trek universe from the perspective of a different set of characters than the TV leads. In this case, it was an approach much like "Lower Decks" on TNG, or like the Young Justice TV series vis-a-vis the Justice League -- showing us a story about a familiar group of characters from the perspective of their subordinates or juniors. The intent was to show us what life on the Enterprise would be like for its junior officers, to show us how they would experience one of the adventures that Kirk, Spock, and McCoy were taking the lead on, how they would perceive and try to learn from these great heroes.

So really, if anyone is a Mary Sue in Dreadnought, it's Kirk. He's the guest star who's better at everything than the central characters, whose actions guide the story, and whom the central character greatly admires. That's pretty much the textbook definition of a Mary Sue.
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Old July 4 2013, 12:07 AM   #6
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Re: Just reread Dreadnaught!

"Carey's weird manifesto" is kinda her whole shtick.

Book. After book. After book.

I find it both tired and obnoxious.
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Old July 4 2013, 12:28 AM   #7
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Re: Just reread Dreadnaught!

JRoss wrote: View Post
Her whole spiel about Earth's history when she is talking to Sarda and explaining Rittenhouse to him.
Oh, that one.

Weird, maybe, but not wrong.
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Old July 4 2013, 12:34 AM   #8
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Re: Just reread Dreadnaught!

The funny thing is that it seems like she contradicts herself. She writes about there being no such thing as the common good, which is seconded by Sarda (guess she never saw TWOK). Then a few pages later Piper starts worrying about who will protect her colony if the Federation goes bye-bye.
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Old July 4 2013, 12:36 AM   #9
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Re: Just reread Dreadnaught!

Sarda is more of a jackass than Piper.
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Old July 4 2013, 12:47 AM   #10
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Re: Just reread Dreadnaught!

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Sarda is more of a jackass than Piper.
Yes. I hated Sarda. He was such an overbearing asshole.

Ironically, Sarda has a lot in common with Enterprise's Vulcans, the ones that Carey would say fifteen years later weren't right.
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Old July 4 2013, 03:35 AM   #11
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Re: Just reread Dreadnaught!

So I actually reread the book a bit before I saw Into Darkness. There were more than a few similarities between those two works...
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Old July 4 2013, 06:26 AM   #12
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Re: Just reread Dreadnaught!

JRoss wrote: View Post
Not nearly as good as I remember it when I was a kid. Carey's weird manifesto in the middle kinda derailed it for me. Believe what you want but please keep it out of Trek. What do y'all think?
How much more Mary Sue than to have the cover art be based on the author and her RL husband? (at least that's how I heard it)

As for the story itself, I have long thought Carey was among the worst of the novelists, and have yet to read anything of hers that would change my mind.
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Old July 4 2013, 10:28 AM   #13
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Re: Just reread Dreadnaught!

I liked First Frontier and The Great Starship Race.
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Old July 4 2013, 10:35 AM   #14
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Re: Just reread Dreadnaught!

Well, they're not blatant Mary Sue stories, like Dreadnought and Battlestations.
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Old July 5 2013, 05:35 PM   #15
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Re: Just reread Dreadnaught!

Christopher wrote: View Post
I still say that calling Piper a Mary Sue is misunderstanding the intent of the books she's in. A Mary Sue is a guest character that steals the spotlight from the heroes.
A Mary Sue is an author-insert character who can out-logic Spock, out-engineer Scotty, etc. and has the whole crew gushing about how awesome she is. I think Piper qualifies. I mean, she defeats the Kobayashi Maru in the very first chapter.
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