RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,896
Posts: 5,386,968
Members: 24,717
Currently online: 508
Newest member: teriankhoka

TrekToday headlines

Gold Key Archives Volume 2
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Takei Documentary Wins Award
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Cumberbatch To Voice Khan
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Shaun And Ed On Phineas and Ferb
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

New Ships Coming From Official Starships Collection
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Trek Stars Take On Ice Bucket Challenge
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Retro Review: Profit and Lace
By: Michelle on Aug 16

Eve Engaged
By: T'Bonz on Aug 15

Shatner’s Get A Life DVD Debuts
By: T'Bonz on Aug 14

TV Alert: Takei Oprah Appearance
By: T'Bonz on Aug 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 3 2013, 09:48 PM   #1
Belz...
Fleet Captain
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Location: In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
Should Illia and Decker have survived ?

I realise that, because of the changes to the story they made when converting In Thy Image into TMP, their sacrifice makes sense, but I quite like the addition of Decker and Illia, so I wonder who else thinks it would've been better if they had "survived" the movie and came back for the sequels.

What do you think ?

And what about Xon ? Would it have been better if Saavik had been given his role in TWOK+ or if he had somehow been included in TMP ?
__________________
And that's my opinion.

The Onmyouza Theatre: an unofficial international fanclub dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za.
Belz... is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3 2013, 09:54 PM   #2
Bry_Sinclair
Commodore
 
Bry_Sinclair's Avatar
 
Location: Along the border of Talarian space
Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?

I loved Decker and Ilia. They had an interesting dynamic amidst the established setting, plus he showed Kirk up (which he definitely needs more often than not).

Xon would have been interesting to have seen as well, though not at the cost of Saavik (she was one of the elements I liked most about TWOK).
__________________
Avatar: Captain Susanna Leijten, U.S.S. Silverfin NCC-4470, Border Service Third Cutter Squadron
Manip by: FltCpt. Bossco (STPMA)
Bry_Sinclair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3 2013, 09:57 PM   #3
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?

Not with the way TMP was written. If the film had progressed more along the lines of how Phase II was originally envisioned, then keeping them around would have made more sense. As it stands, I'm fine with their character concepts being used for Riker and Troi.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3 2013, 10:16 PM   #4
CorporalClegg
Admiral
 
CorporalClegg's Avatar
 
Location: Where my heart is.
Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?

Except Decker wasn't an ass. And Illia could fly a ship.
__________________
Konnichi wa!
CorporalClegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3 2013, 10:41 PM   #5
Mysterion
Rear Admiral
 
Mysterion's Avatar
 
Location: SB-31, Daran V
Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
I loved Decker and Ilia. They had an interesting dynamic amidst the established setting, plus he showed Kirk up (which he definitely needs more often than not).

Xon would have been interesting to have seen as well, though not at the cost of Saavik (she was one of the elements I liked most about TWOK).
Decker, Ilia, and Xon ended up becoming (more or less, for all intents) Riker, Troi, and Data. Hopefully, if there'd been a Phase II TV series, Decker and Ilia would have ended up being more interesting/likeable than Riker and Troi were. As for Xon, I fear the poor guy would have been scorned as just being a "Spock clone" (aka "The Pulaski Effect" seen in TNG's second season).
__________________
USS Galileo Galilei, NCC-8888
Prima Inter Pares
Mysterion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3 2013, 10:43 PM   #6
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?

Given that Decker and Ilia were basically the first drafts of Riker and Troi, I don't feel like we were particularly deprived of their characters. And if they'd kept Ilia, we probably would have never gotten Saavik in the next movie . . ..
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3 2013, 11:06 PM   #7
CorporalClegg
Admiral
 
CorporalClegg's Avatar
 
Location: Where my heart is.
Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?

Honestly, Ilia is a much better character than Saavik.
__________________
Konnichi wa!
CorporalClegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3 2013, 11:11 PM   #8
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Honestly, Ilia is a much better character than Saavik.
I'm curious: why do you feel that way?
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3 2013, 11:19 PM   #9
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?

Belz... wrote: View Post
I quite like the addition of Decker and Illia, so I wonder who else thinks it would've been better if they had "survived" the movie and came back for the sequels.
I was ready for new Decker and Ilia adventures in January 1980.

I was thrilled when I ordered an "In Thy Image" script from then-Lincoln Enterprises and it showed that only the Ilia Probe (aka Tasha) was extinguished when the new V'ger entity departed with Decker, and that, originally, Ilia was suddenly restored at the end. And, IIRC, Decker sends a hopeful message that he may not be gone forever.

The plan for Decker was that a solution to his return would be explained at the beginning of which ever episode was selected to be Episode #2.

Of course, in the novelization of TMP, the ship also lost a security guard, Phillips, to V'ger's digitization, and Kirk commends him along with Decker and Ilia when he lists them as "missing".
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Ph...%28security%29

BTW, Ilia did survive (at least for a few panels) in the first LA Times Syndicate's daily comic strip sequel to TMP, which probably started using an "In Thy Image" script and the assumption that Ilia would be a continuing character.

And what about Xon ?
Did you realise that, according to signage used onscreen in ST II, Xon has an office at Starfleet HQ? The sign was auctioned off in the It's a Wrap! eBay auctions!

I'd always hoped they'd bring Xon and David Gautreaux into TNG or DS9, although DC Comics' "The Origin of Saavik" two-parter, he was sent off on a distant, secret mission... which caused difficulties for Saavik, who'd been bonded with him when first rescued from Hellguard, and she has suddenly entered the pon farr.

Saavik, as written in one of the story proposals for ST II, was originally a male character, Dr Savik.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3 2013, 11:54 PM   #10
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Except Decker wasn't an ass. And Illia could fly a ship.
But wasn't Sulu actually the one flying the ship? As for Decker, it's hard to know if he was an ass or not. He clearly wasn't in the best of moods for most of TMP, but that's probably Kirk's fault for taking his ship away from him.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2013, 12:15 AM   #11
CorporalClegg
Admiral
 
CorporalClegg's Avatar
 
Location: Where my heart is.
Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Honestly, Ilia is a much better character than Saavik.
I'm curious: why do you feel that way?
Just more interesting, mostly because she at least displayed some semblance of being alien.

Alley-Saavik was more human than Spock, and Curtis-Saavik was just female Spock. Ilia was uniquely different and had a lot of untapped potential with her healing ability and oath of celibacy (something that should've been explored more in the film). Android Ilia would have also had her own brand of distinctiveness had they chosen to go that route.

Plus, of the three, I think Khambatta was the most talented.
__________________
Konnichi wa!
CorporalClegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2013, 12:27 AM   #12
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post

Alley-Saavik was more human than Spock, and Curtis-Saavik was just female Spock.
As Alley-Saavik was half-Romulan, it's not surprising that she had a more emotional persona than Spock. Curtis was told by Nimoy to play the character with as little emotion as possible (the Romulan angle was never used on screen, and Nimoy decided to ignore it), so it makes sense that she would have been more like Spock.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2013, 12:43 AM   #13
EliyahuQeoni
Commodore
 
EliyahuQeoni's Avatar
 
Location: Redmond, Oregon, United States of America, North America, Earth, Sol System, Milky Way, Universe
View EliyahuQeoni's Twitter Profile
Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?

Sran wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post

Alley-Saavik was more human than Spock, and Curtis-Saavik was just female Spock.
As Alley-Saavik was half-Romulan, it's not surprising that she had a more emotional persona than Spock.
Not really, since Vulcans and Romulans are biologically identical. The Vulcan repression/control of emotions is a cultural development, not a biological one.
__________________
"Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae. Open your mind! Be a Star Trek fan and open your mind and say, 'Where does Star Trek want to take me now'." - Leonard Nimoy
EliyahuQeoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2013, 12:46 AM   #14
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
Not really, since Vulcans and Romulans are biologically identical. The Vulcan repression/control of emotions is a cultural development, not a biological one.
True, but if we're to believe Saavik's backstory, her being raised on Hellguard would certainly explain why she's rougher around the edges than the typical Vulcan.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2013, 01:32 AM   #15
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
Not really, since Vulcans and Romulans are biologically identical.
Actually, Jack B Sowards probably didn't realise that. His script directions say,

LT. SAAVIK is young and beautiful. She is half Vulcan and half Romulan. In appearance she is Vulcan with pointed ears, but her skin is fair and she has none of the expressionless facial immobility of a Vulcan.
He seemingly assumes that full Romulans were at least physically distinguishable from Vulcans?
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
decker, illia

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:51 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.