RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,371
Posts: 5,503,989
Members: 25,124
Currently online: 542
Newest member: traedoril

TrekToday headlines

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

Rumor Mill: Saldana Gives Birth
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

New Line of Anovos Enterprise Uniforms
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate A Choice of Futures.
Outstanding 54 50.00%
Above Average 40 37.04%
Average 10 9.26%
Below Average 2 1.85%
Poor 2 1.85%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 3 2013, 08:35 PM   #121
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "Don't blame me--I voted for Jaresh-Inyo!"
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Christopher wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Is Thomas Vanderbilt supposed to be a descendant of the famous Vanderbilt family?
I have no idea. Vanderbilt was established as the first UFP president in a newspaper clipping created for Picard's family album in Generations, but never seen on camera, so it's apocryphal. But The Romulan War mentioned him as Earth's defense minister during the war and interior minister at the time of the UFP's founding ceremony. I figured having the first president be the wartime defense minister fit into the narrative I had in mind, so I went with the apocryphal source.
Just my two cents:

I hope Vanderbilt isn't depicted as a member of the Vanderbilt dynasty. Star Trek is supposed to be about, amongst other things, a future when humanity has moved beyond Capitalism and its elitist social hierarchies; it would be kind of disgusting if it were to implicitly celebrate Capitalist elitism by portraying the early UFP as perpetuating such hierarchies.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3 2013, 09:18 PM   #122
Charles Phipps
Commander
 
Charles Phipps's Avatar
 
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Sci wrote: View Post
I hope Vanderbilt isn't depicted as a member of the Vanderbilt dynasty. Star Trek is supposed to be about, amongst other things, a future when humanity has moved beyond Capitalism and its elitist social hierarchies; it would be kind of disgusting if it were to implicitly celebrate Capitalist elitism by portraying the early UFP as perpetuating such hierarchies.
It'd be rather ridiculous to condemn him from coming from a family which had money in the past. It's also self-defeating since a Post-Scarcity economy means EVERYONE is ridiculously rich in the future. Having famous ancestors shouldn't dissuade someone from public office out of a sense of peak at past social injustices.
__________________
Check out the United Federation of Charles:
http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Charles Phipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3 2013, 09:31 PM   #123
Rķu rķu, chķu
Fleet Admiral
 
Rķu rķu, chķu's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
View Rķu rķu, chķu's Twitter Profile
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

^ Yeah, unless one is suggesting (and hoping) all the Vanderbilts died in WW III, what's the harm in simply being from a family like that?
__________________
"A hot dog at the ballpark is better than a steak at the Ritz." - Humphrey Bogart
Rķu rķu, chķu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3 2013, 09:39 PM   #124
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "Don't blame me--I voted for Jaresh-Inyo!"
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
I hope Vanderbilt isn't depicted as a member of the Vanderbilt dynasty. Star Trek is supposed to be about, amongst other things, a future when humanity has moved beyond Capitalism and its elitist social hierarchies; it would be kind of disgusting if it were to implicitly celebrate Capitalist elitism by portraying the early UFP as perpetuating such hierarchies.
It'd be rather ridiculous to condemn him from coming from a family which had money in the past.
You're thinking in-universe. (Obviously, in-universe, one's family's former elite status should not prevent one from achievement.)

Out-universe, I object to depicting a family from the modern ruling class as being part of a future utopian ruling class, as I think that contributes to the idea that such families ought to dominate. This is an evaluation of the narrative, not an in-universe evaluation of the character.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3 2013, 09:43 PM   #125
Rķu rķu, chķu
Fleet Admiral
 
Rķu rķu, chķu's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
View Rķu rķu, chķu's Twitter Profile
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Geez, sorry I opened my fat yapper.
__________________
"A hot dog at the ballpark is better than a steak at the Ritz." - Humphrey Bogart
Rķu rķu, chķu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3 2013, 11:12 PM   #126
Charles Phipps
Commander
 
Charles Phipps's Avatar
 
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Sci wrote: View Post
You're thinking in-universe. (Obviously, in-universe, one's family's former elite status should not prevent one from achievement.)

Out-universe, I object to depicting a family from the modern ruling class as being part of a future utopian ruling class, as I think that contributes to the idea that such families ought to dominate. This is an evaluation of the narrative, not an in-universe evaluation of the character.
I would disagree, primarily because so many other people are not from said classes. However, this is a bit off topic and (as Christopher mentioned) not an issue with his writing intent.
__________________
Check out the United Federation of Charles:
http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Charles Phipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3 2013, 11:58 PM   #127
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

It never even occurred to me to think about the "Vanderbilt dynasty" when writing about Thomas Vanderbilt. I wasn't even particularly aware that there was one. To me the name suggests Gloria Vanderbilt, who I think was a fashion designer or something, but beyond that I'm pretty clueless about what the name suggests. Sure, it does have kind of an upper-class sound, but to me it was pretty much just a name.

Anyway, I did try to describe Thomas Vanderbilt as having olive or medium-dark skin, suggesting that he wasn't as white as the name suggests but was of a mixed ethnic background. So he's certainly not meant to be a pureblooded descendant of some current "dynasty." And I didn't portray him as upper-class in any way.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2013, 12:06 AM   #128
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "Don't blame me--I voted for Jaresh-Inyo!"
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Christopher wrote: View Post
It never even occurred to me to think about the "Vanderbilt dynasty" when writing about Thomas Vanderbilt. I wasn't even particularly aware that there was one. To me the name suggests Gloria Vanderbilt, who I think was a fashion designer or something, but beyond that I'm pretty clueless about what the name suggests. Sure, it does have kind of an upper-class sound, but to me it was pretty much just a name.

Anyway, I did try to describe Thomas Vanderbilt as having olive or medium-dark skin, suggesting that he wasn't as white as the name suggests but was of a mixed ethnic background. So he's certainly not meant to be a pureblooded descendant of some current "dynasty." And I didn't portray him as upper-class in any way.
I didn't take the character of Thomas Vanderbilt as being intended to be a descendant of the Vanderbilt family. I just took it as a guy with the same name.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2013, 12:32 AM   #129
Rķu rķu, chķu
Fleet Admiral
 
Rķu rķu, chķu's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
View Rķu rķu, chķu's Twitter Profile
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

All right, all right, I *get* it. Can we move on?
__________________
"A hot dog at the ballpark is better than a steak at the Ritz." - Humphrey Bogart
Rķu rķu, chķu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2013, 01:01 AM   #130
Kertrats47
Commodore
 
Kertrats47's Avatar
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
View Kertrats47's Twitter Profile
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
All right, all right, I *get* it. Can we move on?
I'm kind of enjoying the discussion... why are you taking this personally?

I sometimes wonder what happens to the "big names" of our world in the future. I think it would be cool to have a character turn out to be a direct descendant of someone who is prominent in politics or culture in the present. I personally don't know much about the "Vanderbilt Dynasty" though, so that name doesn't mean a great deal to me. It is cool that the tiny bit of set dressing that wasn't even seen on screen in Generations led to the creation of the character in the novels and sparked this entire discussion.
__________________
Trek Lit Reviews (The Next Generation #45: Intellivore by Diane Duane - December 14th, 2014)
2014 Star Trek Book Releases
Kertrats47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2013, 05:27 AM   #131
pookha
Admiral
 
pookha's Avatar
 
Location: pookha
View pookha's Twitter Profile
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

I don't even think any of the Vanderbilt family is associated with any of the Vanderbilt university / hospital. of course Anderson cooper is a Vanderbilt.
__________________
avatar by
?
pookha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2013, 05:58 AM   #132
JD
Admiral
 
JD's Avatar
 
Location: Arizona, USA
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

The Vanderbilt's got their fortune from the railroad empire built by Cornelius Vangerbilt. The History miniseries The Men Who Built America featured a couple of their family members.
__________________
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2013, 04:08 PM   #133
Briet
Ensign
 
Location: Budapest
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

The book is great, the best ENT I read so far! I especially liked Dax and his "secret". The fact that they concealed the truth about the symbiots felt really believable, and it could be the source of good adventures. But I'm curious about a few little detail, that whould help me picture the story better. First: are Kirk and Liao officers? Second: is the Thejal that other class of Andorian ships from the show? Third: does commodores and crewmans have a different rank insignias? And I'm a little puzzled about Tallarico being on the Discovery. Wasn't she destroyed too long ago for Tallarico to be still just an ensign?

Other then these I found it awesome. It had every thing someone would expect from a good book: politics, spies, new discovery, a little bit of heart and the old Trek feeling, that a little common sense and brain with a good speech will overcomes any problem or enemy.

Keep up the good work Chritopher!
Briet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2013, 05:06 PM   #134
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Briet wrote: View Post
The book is great, the best ENT I read so far!
Thanks!

I especially liked Dax and his "secret". The fact that they concealed the truth about the symbiots felt really believable, and it could be the source of good adventures.
This was established in TNG: "The Host." The Federation was unaware of the Trill's true nature until the events of that episode. (Although later DS9 episodes suggested that Sisko had known before then, and some other individuals have been in on the secret in other books, including Dr. McCoy according to The Lives of Dax.)


But I'm curious about a few little detail, that whould help me picture the story better. First: are Kirk and Liao officers?
Yes. Lieutenant and lt. commander, respectively.


Second: is the Thejal that other class of Andorian ships from the show?
You mean this one? I think I meant to suggest it might be, but I left it ambiguous, since that ship was a reuse of a shuttle-sized craft from an earlier episode, so I wasn't sure those ships were big enough for what I had in mind.


Third: does commodores and crewmans have a different rank insignias?
I'm sure they do, but I didn't come up with any.


And I'm a little puzzled about Tallarico being on the Discovery. Wasn't she destroyed too long ago for Tallarico to be still just an ensign?
Good point. There's a very good explanation for that, which is that I goofed. Maybe I'll find a way to explain it later.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2013, 07:10 PM   #135
Briet
Ensign
 
Location: Budapest
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

^ Thanks.
Briet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
reviewpoll_v1

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:46 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.