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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old July 1 2013, 05:31 PM   #46
Captain Kathryn
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

Endgame wasn't the worst episode of the series, I think. It's just one that most fans tend to wish it had been done differently. I don't know too many fans who like it exactly the way it is. That said, if it weren't the last episode, I don't think anyone would have cared nearly as much.
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Old July 3 2013, 02:21 AM   #47
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

Speaking of scrutiny, how come Janeway is pegged as the non-resolute, wishy washy captain when every other episode Kirk WIPES HIS ASS with the prime directive? I think it's fun when a Captain breaks the rules. I like how they usually follow the rules because they are decent people with principles. But too much of this gets boring. If you want an awesome out-of-the-ordinary episode, the captain is going to have to do something out of the ordinary.

And just to put this out there, yes the Borg feebleness bothered me too, as well as a few other minute details.
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Old July 3 2013, 03:16 AM   #48
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

My issues with Janeway have little to do with her treatment of the Prime Directive.

In my experience bosses who break the rules are bosses you can't trust. Captains breaking the rules might make for good entertainment but the reality is that people who do that sort of thing habitually shouldn't be placed in positions of authority. Of course, a lot of it depends on -why- they're breaking the rules as well.
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Old July 3 2013, 03:50 AM   #49
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

^ A good boss generally adheres to the rules/principles which have placed him in his position. That's a given. But a good boss also knows when to break said rules. (This is possibly a mere reiteration of your statement). But entertainment is important too. I doubt most of us watch Trek purely for moral guidance. Though, undoubtedly, most of us have been affected by the high morals of the Federation and occasionally apply some of the Federation ethos to our own personal worldview.
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Old July 3 2013, 05:07 AM   #50
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

She said that she could beat a court martial about even a prime directive violation in Counterpoint because all the Admirals that could be judges knew her, and loved her.

Above the fricking law.
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Old July 3 2013, 05:15 AM   #51
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

^Hence her promotion to Admiral. As is well known in Starfleet rank posterity, before one is promoted to Admiral he/she must pledge his/her willingness to cooperate with the dark side. Name one Starfleet Admiral who wasn't morally ambiguous.
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Old July 3 2013, 08:15 AM   #52
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

Vulcan Logician wrote: View Post
^Hence her promotion to Admiral. As is well known in Starfleet rank posterity, before one is promoted to Admiral he/she must pledge his/her willingness to cooperate with the dark side. Name one Starfleet Admiral who wasn't morally ambiguous.
Admiral Kirk!
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Old July 3 2013, 08:27 AM   #53
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Vulcan Logician wrote: View Post
^Hence her promotion to Admiral. As is well known in Starfleet rank posterity, before one is promoted to Admiral he/she must pledge his/her willingness to cooperate with the dark side. Name one Starfleet Admiral who wasn't morally ambiguous.
Admiral Kirk!
Yep and he couldn't cut it and got demoted.
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Old July 3 2013, 11:17 AM   #54
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

teacake wrote: View Post
I think it's very nice of 7 to agree to sleep with Chakotay for charity.
I wanted to post this last week but I had to find it again. lol
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Old July 3 2013, 11:20 AM   #55
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

So you wouldn't sponsor them at 1 dollar a go?
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Old July 3 2013, 11:30 AM   #56
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

R. Star wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Vulcan Logician wrote: View Post
^Hence her promotion to Admiral. As is well known in Starfleet rank posterity, before one is promoted to Admiral he/she must pledge his/her willingness to cooperate with the dark side. Name one Starfleet Admiral who wasn't morally ambiguous.
Admiral Kirk!
Yep and he couldn't cut it and got demoted.
Or that Janeway was a meance to the space lines and was thus promted out of them. Whilst Kirk was a menace in both the space lines and at the Admiralty so they put him where they thought he could do the most good.
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Old July 3 2013, 11:39 AM   #57
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

teacake wrote: View Post
So you wouldn't sponsor them at 1 dollar a go?
Pssh Hellz no. I'd save my money and attempt to court 7 myself
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Old July 3 2013, 11:45 AM   #58
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
So you wouldn't sponsor them at 1 dollar a go?
Pssh Hellz no. I'd save my money and attempt to court 7 myself
Now that's sweet. Saving Chakotay from all that hard work.
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Old July 3 2013, 01:12 PM   #59
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
She said that she could beat a court martial about even a prime directive violation in Counterpoint because all the Admirals that could be judges knew her, and loved her.

Above the fricking law.
I believe this is what's called a "shout out" by the writers. They were aware of the Janeway haters who wanted her court-martialed, so they just anticipated. It seems to me that how they see things working in Hollywood, so they just assume everything is going to be like what they believe, forever, no matter how much other, supposedly superficial things like "technology" changes. There are many people who think "friend" is synonymous with "accomplice."
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Old July 3 2013, 01:57 PM   #60
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

Caligula was slang for "little boots". When he was a little boy, his mother the empress would dress Caligula up as a Centurian in a tiny uniform and he'd march and drill for the troops to their complete thrill. An adorable boy apparently before he started raping horses.

Winning hearts and minds.

What we had here was an army of 10's of thousands of trained killers who would march into hell because Agrippina manipulated the shit out of them years before their loyalty to this "boy" was necessary.

The long game.

6 year old Kathryn Janeway probably had horsey rides from most of the her father's friends who would one day be the Admiralty by the time she was given Voyager.
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