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Old July 2 2013, 11:34 PM   #46
The Badger
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Portal wrote: View Post
I believe God created the universe.

Does that make me a Creationist?
Not necessarily.

Creationism is NOT the belief that the universe and all things in it were ultimately created by God.

Creationism is the belief that the universe and all things in it were created by God in their current form.

If you think that God set the whole thing in motion, creating the laws of science that allowed things to develop along natural lines, then you are most definitely not a creationist. In fact, you'd be rather close to the views of many of the Founding Fathers, who saw God as a 'Great Architect', who generated all but then played no further role in the development of his creation.

Or maybe you think God still affects the cosmos, guiding it along certain pathways, ensuring the development of life from single cell organism to the vast variety we see today. In which case, you are also not a creationist. That process is evolution. If God is behind it, then that runs counter to the concept of natural selection, but evolution itself is still occurring.

If you believe that God created all life, as it is now, and that no natural process can shape or change the nature of species, then you are indeed a creationist.

So, what do you believe?
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Old July 2 2013, 11:43 PM   #47
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
I accept that there are things that we can't comprehend.
I accept that there are things you can't comprehend too.
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Old July 2 2013, 11:46 PM   #48
marksound
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

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I dunno, why do non-believers think it's necessary to rip into believers? You'd think given the totality of history they of all people would be open to tolerance among different ideas instead of just returning the favor as it were.

Isn't the reverse also true at times where believers rip into non-believers?

But isn't the question more about what we teach our children. I perhaps hold a rather simply view Evolution is taught in science classes, whilst Creationism, Intelligent Design etc.. can be taught in Relgious Classes. Creationism, Intelligent design simply has no place in a science class.
There is a middle ground in there, somewhere.

Scientists have not proved evolution, and creationists can't prove that it didn't happen. The middle would be acknowledgement that there might be an intersect between the two.

A lot of evolutionists will not give an inch, while a lot of creationists are willing to explore it. The main thing is that it doesn't really matter. In the course of human events (to borrow a phrase), what we do with what we have is the important thing.
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Old July 2 2013, 11:47 PM   #49
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

The Badger wrote: View Post
So, what do you believe?
I believe that God is omnipresent and that if He took His attention away from us for even one moment, then we would cease to exist.

But I also believe that scientific theory which has been proven is true.

So while I do think the Bible is infallible, I think Science is true at the same time. I might not be able to explain some things however.
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Old July 2 2013, 11:49 PM   #50
marksound
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Portal wrote: View Post
The Badger wrote: View Post
So, what do you believe?
I believe that God is omnipresent and that if He took His attention away from us for even one moment, then we would cease to exist.

But I also believe that scientific theory which has been proven is true.

So while I do think the Bible is infallible, I think Science is true at the same time.
That's what I'm talkin' about.
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Old July 2 2013, 11:51 PM   #51
Gov Kodos
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
I dunno, why do non-believers think it's necessary to rip into believers? You'd think given the totality of history they of all people would be open to tolerance among different ideas instead of just returning the favor as it were.

Isn't the reverse also true at times where believers rip into non-believers?

But isn't the question more about what we teach our children. I perhaps hold a rather simply view Evolution is taught in science classes, whilst Creationism, Intelligent Design etc.. can be taught in Relgious Classes. Creationism, Intelligent design simply has no place in a science class.
There is a middle ground in there, somewhere.

Scientists have not proved evolution, and creationists can't prove that it didn't happen. The middle would be acknowledgement that there might be an intersect between the two.

A lot of evolutionists will not give an inch, while a lot of creationists are willing to explore it. The main thing is that it doesn't really matter. In the course of human events (to borrow a phrase), what we do with what we have is the important thing.
There is no intersect. Creationism is based on unproven assertion without evidence, the existence of god.
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Old July 2 2013, 11:51 PM   #52
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Portal wrote: View Post
So while I do think the Bible is infallible
: O
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Old July 2 2013, 11:52 PM   #53
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
There is a middle ground in there, somewhere.

Scientists have not proved evolution, and creationists can't prove that it didn't happen. The middle would be acknowledgement that there might be an intersect between the two.

A lot of evolutionists will not give an inch, while a lot of creationists are willing to explore it.
No, and I'm afraid you don't understand how evolutionary science works if you believe that "scientists have not proved evolution."

Start here:

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=6024&page=9
-
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolib...hp?topic_id=46
-
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence
-

Those links will give you a solid understanding of evolution, how it works, and what supportive evidence there is for it. Keep in mind that in scientific terms, the word "theory" is not the same as "idea." In science, a hypothesis is an idea, a theory is an evidence supported structure that is falsifiable. A theory is as close to a fact as one can get.

There is no intersect between fact supported theorem and belief. A belief requires no fact checking, no data to support it. A scientific theory requires all of these things.
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Old July 2 2013, 11:57 PM   #54
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Scientists have not proved evolution, and creationists can't prove that it didn't happen. The middle would be acknowledgement that there might be an intersect between the two.
Evolution is a fact. What biological scientists are less certain of are the mechanics of evolution but the Theory of Evolution by Means of Natural Selection is a very good explanation of the mechanics of evolution and for 150 years it has stood very solid and only needed minor tweaking.
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Old July 3 2013, 12:12 AM   #55
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
tomalak301 wrote: View Post
I'd like to think that creation was perfect. How we got some imperfect was we as a society took that creation, spit all over it, fell in love with temptation and here we are. A person is smart. People are stupid disgusting ingrates.
What an awful, depressing foundation to build a belief system on, and a terrible outlook on your fellow human beings. Original sin is questionable enough as it is, but your personal interpretation turns the ugliness up to eleven.
Maybe I don't understand what you mean, but why? I've just seen time and again how nasty society can be. I'd like to think society can improve and it can be great, but there is so much negativity in this world that we are far from it. We've seen so much ugliness in the last few years alone that it's hard to be optimistic, even though I probably should be.

Of course maybe we're talking about two different things and what I said has no relation to this thread at all, which might be possible. I was asked how things got so imperfect and I started thinking about our society as a whole and all the negatives that come with it like Crime, school shootings, even being devided on opinions so much that people would attack one another for it. The first thing I thought of too were the Vancouver riots after the Stanley Cup. I mean it was just a game, but it was a game that burned the city to the ground. That's unfortunately the nasty side of our society, and you're right, it is ugly.
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Old July 3 2013, 12:15 AM   #56
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

all you christian creationists are wrong. Zeus created the earth. and so did Odin. and so did Allah. and so did the egyptian ones that created the world before anyone had invented that judeo-christian one you have a metaphysical boner for.

you have no proof you're even believing in the right god. so taking on science with all of it's provable facts and evidence seem as absurd as jumping from a plane without a parachute because gravity is just a theory.
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Old July 3 2013, 12:17 AM   #57
The Badger
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Portal wrote: View Post
The Badger wrote: View Post
So, what do you believe?
I believe that God is omnipresent and that if He took His attention away from us for even one moment, then we would cease to exist.

But I also believe that scientific theory which has been proven is true.

So while I do think the Bible is infallible, I think Science is true at the same time. I might not be able to explain some things however.
From this, you are clearly not a creationist. You accept that evolution has happened, as this has been demonstrated to be true beyond all reasonable doubt.

Now, you may think the process is guided by God following some divine plan. Or you may think that, having initiated the process, God does not get involved (aside from paying attention, as you put it) and lets it play out naturally. Either way,this runs counter to the creationist view which vehemently denies the existence of evolution at all.

I hope that helps clarify matters.
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Old July 3 2013, 12:24 AM   #58
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Portal wrote: View Post
It's hard to know which way to turn when, one side says it has infallible truth and the other has scientific proof, isn't it?
Well lets look at some of the meanings of infalliable

It is something that can't be proved false.
It is something that can be safely relied on.
It is something completely trustworthy and sure.

So they are basically saying it can't be proven false so it must be true. Isn't the reverse also true as it can't be proven to be true it could be false.

How can it be safely relied upon when you can't prove it?

Nothing is completely trustworthy and sure.

As for scientifc proof, well for starters it's only proof as based on our current understanding of science. So it could change at a later date as our understanding improves.


At the end of the day science vs religon comes down to faith. If people want to believe in a higher being then that is entierly upto them, so long as it's an informed opinion.
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Old July 3 2013, 12:31 AM   #59
J. Allen
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

In short, anyone who tells you their truth is infallible is blowing smoke up your ass.
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Old July 3 2013, 12:40 AM   #60
Davros
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Scientists have not proved evolution,
Actually, they have.
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