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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate A Choice of Futures.
Outstanding 54 50.00%
Above Average 40 37.04%
Average 10 9.26%
Below Average 2 1.85%
Poor 2 1.85%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 1 2013, 03:34 AM   #106
EliyahuQeoni
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Nob Akimoto wrote: View Post
Am I the only one who actually didn't like the presence of Sam Kirk on Pioneer? It felt a little too contrieved to me.
I can see where some might see it that way, but it didn't feel contrived to me. The scene where his full name was revealed seemed like a nice treat for TOS fans. Since Christopher has said that this series is meant to bridge the gap between ENT and TOS I would hope that there will not only be call-backs to ENT, bit call-forwards to TOS. It is a very large gap though, so the types of reference are limited, I would think. I do trust Christopher's creativity to find them and make them seem non-gratuitous.

One question for Christiopher: Was there any significance to Sam Kirk's middle name "Abraham"? It occurred to me that you named him Sam as 1) a reference to George Samuel Kirk, Jim's brother and 2) as a reference to the TMP novel that mentions Jim Kirk's grandfather Samuel. Many assumed this to be George, Sr's father, but it could have been his Great Grandfather Samuel.

I know you're working on the second volume of this series now, but I look forward to your eventual annotations for this book.
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Old July 1 2013, 03:54 AM   #107
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
One question for Christiopher: Was there any significance to Sam Kirk's middle name "Abraham"?
See "The Savage Curtain." Abraham Lincoln is Jim Kirk's hero; I assume that reverence was passed down from his forebears.

It occurred to me that you named him Sam as 1) a reference to George Samuel Kirk, Jim's brother and 2) as a reference to the TMP novel that mentions Jim Kirk's grandfather Samuel. Many assumed this to be George, Sr's father, but it could have been his Great Grandfather Samuel.
Actually I'd forgotten about that reference in the TMP novelization. The 2009 movie established that Jim Kirk's paternal grandfather was named Tiberius, while his maternal grandfather was named James.

My assumption is that Sam and Valeria are JTK's great-grandparents. If we assume they have a kid sometime in the 2170s, then that kid would have George somewhere around 2200, putting him in his early 30s when he fathers Jim in 2233.
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Old July 1 2013, 03:58 AM   #108
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
Nob Akimoto wrote: View Post
Am I the only one who actually didn't like the presence of Sam Kirk on Pioneer? It felt a little too contrieved to me.
I can see where some might see it that way, but it didn't feel contrived to me. The scene where his full name was revealed seemed like a nice treat for TOS fans. Since Christopher has said that this series is meant to bridge the gap between ENT and TOS I would hope that there will not only be call-backs to ENT, bit call-forwards to TOS. It is a very large gap though, so the types of reference are limited, I would think. I do trust Christopher's creativity to find them and make them seem non-gratuitous.

One question for Christiopher: Was there any significance to Sam Kirk's middle name "Abraham"? It occurred to me that you named him Sam as 1) a reference to George Samuel Kirk, Jim's brother and 2) as a reference to the TMP novel that mentions Jim Kirk's grandfather Samuel. Many assumed this to be George, Sr's father, but it could have been his Great Grandfather Samuel.

I know you're working on the second volume of this series now, but I look forward to your eventual annotations for this book.
Obviously I could be wrong but given the fact that Abraham Lincoln is stated to be a hero of Kirk's I wondered if perhaps it wasn't something he got from his grandfather, and that the middle name might be in honor of Lincoln.

Personally I thought it was great to meet Kirk's future grandparents.

My question about it for Christopher is what from canon or trek-lit inspired you to make his grandfather an historian?
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Old July 1 2013, 04:34 AM   #109
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Stoek wrote: View Post
Personally I thought it was great to meet Kirk's future grandparents.
Great-grandparents.


My question about it for Christopher is what from canon or trek-lit inspired you to make his grandfather an historian?
Jim Kirk is well-known to be a history buff. Also, I wanted the two characters to reflect the two sides of his personality -- the impulsive man of action and the contemplative intellectual. I made his female ancestor the tough/aggressive one to subvert stereotypes.

Plus I've sometimes come across threads where people wondered just what purpose a starship historian would serve. Featuring a historian character gives me a chance to answer that question, and get some use out of my own history degree.
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Old July 1 2013, 06:49 AM   #110
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Christopher wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
Poli sci geek that I am, I'm especially intrigued by the differences in how the Federation government functioned in the 2160s vs the 2380s. In particular, the Federation Commission reminds me (intentionally, I'm sure) of the European Commission and the Council of the European Union (aka, the Council of Ministers). The Federation at this point is a slightly stronger version of the E.U. in some ways.
I did use the EU as a model, yes. But the analogy for the Council of the EU would be the Joint Ministerial Conferences, such as the defense ministers' conference on Deneva.
Ah, okay -- I conflated the Federation Commission with the Joint Ministerial Conferences in my memory, probably because of Noar's invoking the ministers in his threat to remove Admiral Shran.

I see the Babel Conference in "Journey to Babel" as being another example of that, although with planetary ambassadors rather than ministers per se (although UFP ambassadors seem to have a different role than ambassadors today).
Well, they seem to be Ambassadors of the Federation Member to the Federation itself, rather than Ambassadors of the Federation to non-Federation states -- which certainly seems to imply a fundamentally different role from representatives of two truly independent states to one-another, yeah.

The idea that the Federation had regular JMCs throughout its early years is interesting, and does explain what exactly was going on in "Journey to Babel." Though I would point out that Kirk's opening narration in that episode seems to imply that the Federation is in the midst of a constitutional crisis over the admission of Coridan. So I would suggest that the events of that episode may not represent standard constitutional procedure, depending on how you interpret things.

I'm also intrigued that Thomas Vanderbilt is the President of the Council of the United Federation of Planets, rather than being President of the United Federation of Planets. I'm wondering what the substantive difference in executive powers are between the two offices; to make a comparison, the old President of the United States in Congress Assembled (aka, the President of the Congress) under the Articles of Confederation was a very different office than the President of the U.S. You would think that this would mean that Vanderbilt was, in essence, the Federation Council's presiding officer rather than an actual head of state and head of government; yet his role in the novel is virtually identical to that of the Federation Presidents in other novels and films/episodes. He's even referred to as the "commander-in-chief" of the Federation Starfleet.
Yeah, I was kind of hedging there, suggesting that maybe he was a different category of president, that the rules were different at the time. But I was kind of winging it. I suppose any ambiguity could reflect the piecemeal nature of the UFP government at this stage.
Hmm. I'm intrigued by some of the story possibilities this apparent evolution of the office suggests.
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Old July 1 2013, 06:52 AM   #111
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

FYI.... I think the fact that I finished the novel two days ago and want to read it again already, says something.
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Old July 2 2013, 10:59 AM   #112
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

I thought it was OK but hampered by the constant need for the story to stop to explain away elements of the future (why the bridge is shaped the way it is etc, why consoles will look the way they do) - I know a lot of people like that sort of stuff but it does nothing for me - enjoyable on a talkboard, a drag in a story.
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Old July 2 2013, 04:03 PM   #113
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
I thought it was OK but hampered by the constant need for the story to stop to explain away elements of the future (why the bridge is shaped the way it is etc, why consoles will look the way they do) - I know a lot of people like that sort of stuff but it does nothing for me - enjoyable on a talkboard, a drag in a story.
I love when my books go into technical detail like that. I'm not one to read Trek novels outside of the TOS/TOS movie eras, but I am going to pick up this book because of those things.
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Old July 2 2013, 05:37 PM   #114
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
I thought it was OK but hampered by the constant need for the story to stop to explain away elements of the future (why the bridge is shaped the way it is etc, why consoles will look the way they do) - I know a lot of people like that sort of stuff but it does nothing for me - enjoyable on a talkboard, a drag in a story.
...and i'm the exact opposite. I'm a big fan of when Christopher does this. It always seems to come exactly when I want it to. There's no accounting for personal taste I guess
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Old July 2 2013, 05:45 PM   #115
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

The thing is, I generally try not to "explain" things just for the sake of continuity patchwork, but only to do it if there's a distinct in-story reason for it. In this case, I was using the exploration of the origins of starship designs to play into the plot thread of the different species learning to work together, feeling out how each civilization would contribute something to Starfleet and the Federation, and sort of jockeying for prominence, wondering whose technology and whose ideas would come out on top. I don't use plot to serve continuity porn, I use continuity porn to serve plot. At least, that's what I aspire to.
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Old July 2 2013, 10:16 PM   #116
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Christopher wrote: View Post
I don't use plot to serve continuity porn, I use continuity porn to serve plot. At least, that's what I aspire to.
And just as the best genre fiction is good storytelling first, and genre fiction second (if that), good "continuity porn" (what a term!) is also good storytelling first, and "continuity porn" second (if that).
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Old July 3 2013, 02:34 AM   #117
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Is Thomas Vanderbilt supposed to be a descendant of the famous Vanderbilt family?
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Old July 3 2013, 03:00 AM   #118
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Is Thomas Vanderbilt supposed to be a descendant of the famous Vanderbilt family?
I have no idea. Vanderbilt was established as the first UFP president in a newspaper clipping created for Picard's family album in Generations, but never seen on camera, so it's apocryphal. But The Romulan War mentioned him as Earth's defense minister during the war and interior minister at the time of the UFP's founding ceremony. I figured having the first president be the wartime defense minister fit into the narrative I had in mind, so I went with the apocryphal source.
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Old July 3 2013, 12:38 PM   #119
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

My copy should arrive sometime today. Plan on reading it after I finish reading "Man of Steel".
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Old July 3 2013, 07:37 PM   #120
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Who made up continuity porn or first used it for Trek novels( or tv or movies)?
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