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Old July 1 2013, 07:00 PM   #91
MacLeod
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

How were they in a worse station than Voyager?
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Old July 1 2013, 07:01 PM   #92
DonIago
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Well, DS9 itself was on the safe side of the lines after the Occupation Arc and was close enough to Bajor that they could probably have essentials brought in as-needed. When they didn't we had episodes like "Empok Nor" or "The Siege of AR-558", though granted the second one didn't primarily involve Our Heroes.
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Old July 1 2013, 08:48 PM   #93
Anwar
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

DS9 was during a big war wherein we kept hearing about how the Fed Alliance was losing and hundreds of ships were being destroyed. You'd think supplies would be harder to come by int his kind of context, yet the Station was always at 100% good condition and the Defiant, despite being sent out to battle numerous times between episodes, was always in 100% good condition like it was factory fresh.

VOY was not at war with anyone in the Delta Quadrant, and it wouldn't be that hard to just draw power from any Suns or Nebulae or whatever to power the replicators, and the Delta Quadrant was loaded with alien species with their own commerce hubs and repair stations they could go to.

So yeah, I'd say it's harder to believe that DS9 was always in good shape compared to VOY.
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Old July 1 2013, 09:53 PM   #94
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

But the Federation/Starfleet would have thousands of industrial replciators to call upon. It was likely DSN itself was equipped with at least one industrial replciator in order to serve as a repair facility.

It is highly improbable that Vouyager would have an industrial replicator to replicate all those parts and hull plates they needed week in week out.
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Old July 2 2013, 12:57 AM   #95
Anwar
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
But the Federation/Starfleet would have thousands of industrial replciators to call upon. It was likely DSN itself was equipped with at least one industrial replciator in order to serve as a repair facility.
Just as believable that VOY would have an Industrial Replicator as well. The war's effect would've been better shown if the Station was shown battle-damaged and the Defiant being more battle scarred as well. And don't get me started on how no one in the main cast died except Dax.

It is highly improbable that Vouyager would have an industrial replicator to replicate all those parts and hull plates they needed week in week out.
They wouldn't need them week in and week out. Federation Starships are designed for missions that take them away from Known Space for years. TOS had the Enterprise on a 5 year mission away from Fed space where it would be beyond any repair facilities. They wouldn't send them out on missions like that if they needed maintenance so fast and so easily.

And Voyager would easily run into alien repair stations and commerce hubs, without being at war with anyone to make them need stuff all the time.

Hell, Moya from Farscape was a "living" ship but we never saw it having to "eat" anything to survive but no one complains there.
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Old July 2 2013, 01:24 AM   #96
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Industrial replicators are I suspect for creating devices, or quantities of anything, with a an even greater mass than a Star Ship.
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Old July 2 2013, 04:41 AM   #97
Anwar
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Don't know about that. In DS9 Eddington stole 4 Industrial Replicators. If they were really that big, they wouldn't be easily transported all together in some transport ship.
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Old July 2 2013, 05:26 AM   #98
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

What they need is an industrial replicator which replicates the starships etc.. as a transporter pattern. Then you aim the replicator into space, beam out the pattern and voila! A brand new starship.

This would also work well for filling people's offices with tribbles.
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Old July 2 2013, 05:47 AM   #99
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Anwar wrote: View Post
Don't know about that. In DS9 Eddington stole 4 Industrial Replicators. If they were really that big, they wouldn't be easily transported all together in some transport ship.
You're assuming that industrial replicators are massive boxes that magically create "whatever" inside that box.

1. A parabolic dish. Or a few parabolic dishes, means that you don't need a box the size of a building, you just need 5 or 6 dishes placed evenly apart at an appropriate distance.

2. Power. Lets just assume an industrial replicator needs power specifications of 8 starship warp drives? There's three answers to that question... 8 starships, an independent power source, or plug it into the planetary grid. If you try to plug your kitchen replicator into 8 star ships, there's no "might" about whether it's going to blow up.

3. Replicators don't create matter, they transmute matter from something cheap and useless (for food, I'm assuming biomatter is code for poop.) into a number of simple things/stuffs that can be used for many services/duties/requirements... As has been said a couple times there are some "elements" or wiggy "stuff" (and latinum) that is unreplicatable. Which means after you've set up your industrial replicators to create a billion tons of "X" to do/manifest "Y" you still need close to a billion tons of "Z" to put into the replicator to be transmuted into "X". To ensure uniform results, whatever the frakk "Z" is, it had best be consistently the same "thingy" made up from the same grade/quality of that "thingy".

I mean you'd feel slutted if you found that your thingy had been cut with baby laxatives, and wonder if hat has any impact on you final product?!
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Old July 2 2013, 06:28 AM   #100
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

AND you could use it as a weapon. No need to smuggle in explosive ingredients all replicators and transporters are designed to be incapable of reproducing, you just replicate an asteroid's worth of rock and transport it into your target building.
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Old July 2 2013, 06:53 AM   #101
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Over kill much?

Just transport your target out.
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Old July 2 2013, 06:55 AM   #102
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

I'm not talking assassination, I'm talking terrorism like the bombing of the Earth embassy in ENT's The Forge.
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Old July 2 2013, 07:22 AM   #103
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Oh. Pageantry!

There are two types of transporter suppression fields I remember seeing. In Voyager Alliances we saw a disruption field which incapacitated the transporter scanners so that they no way to fix in on their targets, or know who or what hey were transporting. Janeway overruled that device by saying "Well, just transport everyone in the room." Which is stupid and she's lucky no one was cut in half. Meanwhile in Empok Nor there are transporter suppression fields that cause you to explode when the transporter beam is trying to congele someone back into a person. On a planet like Earth where transporters have been around for a while, every "single" transmisson/transporter signal is authorized and tracked like the FAA does with Airplanes today, just so that no one tries any acts of terrorism... Or They're idiots.

But they should be able to identify a rogue signal and "cancel" it relatively instantly if the paper work doesn't check out, which just explains why the hell people still use shuttle pods. Human beings would not be fast enough to track this and it would have to be automated. Computer programing working at computer speed tasked to disrupt illegal signals. You can imagine the fuss if a computer program accidentally kills a couple dozen school children on a field trip to New Atlantis.

In Forge, some dude just walked the bomb in. One foot in front of the other. Reasonably low tech. However later in the episode Archer made a large fuss about needing "codes" to beam through the planetary Jammers on Vulcan into the Forge because he is untrustworthy alien scum.
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Old July 2 2013, 09:47 AM   #104
theblitz
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

If you want to know what happens when you kill of main cast then just watch Earth: Final Conflict.
There it's more like "Wonder which character will survive today".
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Old July 2 2013, 10:09 AM   #105
Stoo
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Anwar wrote: View Post
The war's effect would've been better shown if the Station was shown battle-damaged and the Defiant being more battle scarred as well.
I actually quite like that idea, now you mention it. Maybe have one of those pylons broken off.

Still, I'd have liked to see Voyager get a bit more beaten and patched up. Would have done a lot for the atmosphere of the show, letting us know they have to trade and scavenge to survive, rather than being on a routine cruise. If day to day life is no different to any regular deep-space exploration mission, seems like half the point of the show is gone.
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