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Old July 1 2013, 02:27 PM   #46
Ketrick
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

Post deleted.

Last edited by Ketrick; July 2 2013 at 12:40 AM.
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Old July 1 2013, 02:41 PM   #47
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

In the edit funtion there is a delete button, failing that just delete the text and say "Post Deleted"
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Old July 2 2013, 03:28 AM   #48
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

Anwar wrote: View Post
Remember that Voyager got home so fast because they kept making those massive LY jumps.
They sure must have missed a lot.

Mistral wrote: View Post
WesleysDisciple wrote: View Post
Its hard for me to imagine, given the way technolagy works in Star trek, that by the 32 century, the federation hasnt colonized most of the galaxy, if not most of this galactic cluster.

Leaving that aside... Any ideas what kind of welcome the Archive of the doctor, would recieve when he got home?

Reintegration with the doctor himself, perhaps, if hes still online?
Here's my take on it: http://adastrafanfic.com/viewstory.php?sid=62
I've just come back from reading it. A little confusing in places, but one hell of a story! That's something worth making into an episode, instead of some of the cardboard stories we got.

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
The time scale on the episode bothers me a bit, to be honest. 700 years is a LONG time to hold a grudge. The Crusades are still a semi-sore subject in the Middle East but you don't hear people starting a riot over them.
People start riots every day over the Crusades, but they call it something else. And given that the animosities in that region of the world have been continuous for several thousands of years, the Crusades are pretty recent.

Lighthammer wrote: View Post
RE: Christopher's point regarding long standing conflicts
There's actually some interesting points along the way in history that I think do give some serious precedents to grudges lasting 700 years in Earth World History.

There's a lot of examples where tribes and nation states had long, long, long standing feuds between or nations who had long standing enemies.

Some great examples to pull from:
- Rome lasted approximately 500 years. It had LOTS of enemies.
- The Crusades (as mentioned earlier in the thread) lasted approximately 300 years between all three Crusades and that figure may or may not even include a lot of the skirmishes that existed for decades after the last set of Crusades (I'd need to do some research to double check myself on this one!) The actions of the Crusades still highly resonate today.
- The Iroquois Indians and Algonquian Indians to this day still consider themselves mortal enemies in many sects. That's a gruge lasting
- The Aztec empire was built, died and rebuilt again lasting conservatively around 350 years and they had enemies out the wazzu (I say conservatively because I think its a bit longer, but thats the best dates I get out of wiki skimming it).
- The Mongol Empire started by Gangis Khan lasted nearly 250 years and one could say between orderly transitions a lot longer.

My point is 700 years, while long, isn't really THAT long in the anals of history.
Rome lasted how long? Considering that historians have accepted 753/752 BCE (BC) as the year of its founding and the Western Empire fell in 476 CE (AD) and the Eastern Empire (aka Byzantine Empire) fell in 1453 CE (AD), that's a hell of a lot longer than 700 years!

And consider the Sunni/Shia problems in the Middle East. That dates to the death of Mohammed, back in the 600s AD. That also is a lot longer than 700 years.

Some people hold grudges for a very long time!
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Old October 9 2013, 04:09 AM   #49
dub
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

Just watched this one. Would have been interesting if we didn't actually see the doctor's "more true" version played out in this episode, but instead show the events as they happened "for real" in a later episode of Voyager, along with the "inverted hyper compression" technobabble explanation for the successful creation of the doctor's back-up.

I imagine the idea for a backup comes up in a staff meeting, and everyone agrees it's impossible.

Then Torres jumps in and says "unless... blah blah blah..."

Then Paris finishes her thought.

Then Janeway says "do it."
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Old October 9 2013, 04:37 AM   #50
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

And the Doctor, because no one likes to be left out, clones back up of the rest of the crew so that they can quid pro quo, feel just as unspecial as they are making him feel.
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Old October 9 2013, 12:49 PM   #51
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

dub wrote: View Post
Then Torres jumps in and says "unless... blah blah blah..."
But that's the sexy part.

dub wrote: View Post
Then Paris finishes her thought.

Then Janeway says "do it."
That's not.
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Old October 9 2013, 01:16 PM   #52
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
The explanation given in the show that the Doc can't be copied is that his data is so massive it has to be stored in a manner that it must be maintained by an active process and can't be straight duplicated, like the transporter buffer.

It's possible the Federation was not able to expand that far because they were blocked by other powers along the way, or because their supply lines would be too long if they tried to expand that far. It's likely deep space vessels have been there by the 32nd century. But if there were, the ship would have probably been using Voyager's logs for reference, so they would have expected hostility and spied on them first and realized that they did still have animosity toward the Federation, then steered clear.
It's just easier to assume that the copy of the Doctor was like a zip file of compressed data, not the entire Doctor, that required another computer unzip and to run.
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Old October 9 2013, 02:02 PM   #53
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

Voyager had so much useless data in their computers. Background information about Janeways ancestors and Captain Proton parts 25 - 99 would have simply been deleted to make a backup. And you only need to back up the medical part, not any of the additions like singing or whatever.

I really dislike the way they wrote the doctor. It's silly from a computer science pov. The hologram/program confusion, the idea that he sees, feels, smells etc. like a human, the idea that they can't make a backup, etc... It shows the writers really had no understanding of the subject matter.
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Old October 9 2013, 03:29 PM   #54
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

...but clearly, at some point, they did make a back-up.
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Old October 9 2013, 04:15 PM   #55
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

Solbor's Blood wrote: View Post
dub wrote: View Post
Then Torres jumps in and says "unless... blah blah blah..."
But that's the sexy part.

dub wrote: View Post
Then Paris finishes her thought.

Then Janeway says "do it."
That's not.
It is, if Paris and Torres do it right there on the conference table as Janeway ordered.
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Old October 9 2013, 05:18 PM   #56
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

dub wrote: View Post
...but clearly, at some point, they did make a back-up.
Funny thing is -after- that episode, they specifically mention they can't copy him again.
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Old October 9 2013, 05:44 PM   #57
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

Living Witness features no Stardates, so the creation and loss of The Doctor's back-up module could have occurred at any point between Scorpion P2/The Gift (when Seven joined the crew) and the end of the series, so the 'problem' of Message in a Bottle, Blink of an Eye, and Life Line apparently contradicting this episode isn't really that much of a problem.
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Old October 9 2013, 06:00 PM   #58
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

WesleysDisciple wrote: View Post
Its hard for me to imagine, given the way technolagy works in Star trek, that by the 32 century, the federation hasnt colonized most of the galaxy, if not most of this galactic cluster.
Maybe there is no Federation in the 32nd century?

Plus, there are estimated to be something like 10 billion Earth-type planets in the galaxy. They'll never visit them all.
Leaving that aside... Any ideas what kind of welcome the Archive of the doctor, would recieve when he got home?

Reintegration with the doctor himself, perhaps, if hes still online?
Unless the original EMH perished with the Federation
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Old October 9 2013, 06:01 PM   #59
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
Living Witness features no Stardates, so the creation and loss of The Doctor's back-up module could have occurred at any point between Scorpion P2/The Gift (when Seven joined the crew) and the end of the series, so the 'problem' of Message in a Bottle, Blink of an Eye, and Life Line apparently contradicting this episode isn't really that much of a problem.
Perhaps they acquired alien backup technology in an unseen adventure and promptly lost it.
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Old October 10 2013, 01:25 AM   #60
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
WesleysDisciple wrote: View Post
Its hard for me to imagine, given the way technolagy works in Star trek, that by the 32 century, the federation hasnt colonized most of the galaxy, if not most of this galactic cluster.
Maybe there is no Federation in the 32nd century?
Unlikely...wasn't Daniels from that time?
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